Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 3:28 pm Is it worth the bother voting?

Thor wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 11:10 pm

EH16 wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:39 pm

greyhound wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:15 pm just goes to show how democracy is being ignored whichever county you live in.

Still don't see that. The referendum vote was to leave and that's what we're doing unless there's another (democratic) vote which changes that. The issue is under what conditions we leave and that wasn't a choice given in the referendum. It's now our (democratically elected) MP's who can't come to an agreement as to what those conditions should be. How's that ignoring democracy?

Your own individual wishes may be being ignored but that's the price you pay for living in a democracy.

The £9m or whatever it was propaganda that Cameron sent to every home was quite clear on what would happen if we voted to leave, not sure why it’s being ignored now though. Well I do but....

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 1:05 am

Disoriented wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 6:58 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 4:52 pm As everybody knows on here, I'm a passionate Brexiteer but even I concede its now not going to happen. Max can now also kiss Scottish independence goodbye because that's not going to happen either. Might as well end this thread right now. Independence is a thing of the past. We're all going to end up living in a federal superstate called Europe. Get used to it folks.

Do you really think it won’t happen now Red and if so, who is to blame?

Honestly ,It's crystal clear to me now that Brexit isn't going to happen . I blame Theresa May and a Remainer Parliament . It was Parliament who voted to give us a referendum in the first place and said they would abide by the result ,then went back in their word . I think the Brexit Party will win the EU Elections but it won't change a thing , we're staying. The establishment is just too powerful and Parliament won't allow it . God only knows what damage this has done to our democracy . Short term we'll be more prosperous but long term I think it will all end in tears.

greyhound wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:17 pm if Brexit does not happen believe me there will be hell to play.
Conservatives and Labour will feel the wrath of the people.
I for one will never vote again.

Fellowo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:55 pm Soon as Farage denied live on TV that the NHS would save £352 million (which we all know played a huge part in the Brexit campaign), I for one knew people had been had and that Farage was a wrong un.

EH16 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 4:19 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 11:10 pm

EH16 wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:39 pm

Still don't see that. The referendum vote was to leave and that's what we're doing unless there's another (democratic) vote which changes that. The issue is under what conditions we leave and that wasn't a choice given in the referendum. It's now our (democratically elected) MP's who can't come to an agreement as to what those conditions should be. How's that ignoring democracy?

Your own individual wishes may be being ignored but that's the price you pay for living in a democracy.

The £9m or whatever it was propaganda that Cameron sent to every home was quite clear on what would happen if we voted to leave, not sure why it’s being ignored now though. Well I do but....

But it's not being ignored is it? We voted to leave and we're leaving. I don't get how that's ignoring the result.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 6:10 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 9:05 am

FargO wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:39 pm I voted for joining the common market in the original referendum. Nobody asked my permission to enrol me in a federal Europe.

Strange how people who were not around at the time do not realise that.
When that same question was raised in the referendum in 1975 by people like patriotic left wing Labour party people like Shore, Benn, Foot plus Enoch Powell, well Heath and Jenkins etc who were on the other side of the debate ( pro remain in the Common Market ) said it was all scare mongering and would NOT happen !! Well we know know that they lied through their teeth !!
Also ironic that for years Labours Kinnock and Corbyn were very Anti EU, but became fans of the EU......when it suited them !

Lastly, all this business of Scotland voting to become an Independent Country in its own right. Ok so if that happened, what next ? A rush to join the EU then after a long waiting period, join the EU, to then lose the freedom of being an Independence Country that it had fought to gain and then be absorbed into the EU block and be forced to put up a hard border between its biggest trading partner, the Uk !!
Strange thinking that one ?

You misunderstand it's England we want rid of. Who cares if we get absorbed into the EU Block so long as we can be independent from our colonial masters.

Besides isn't there the power of veto in the EU for its members?

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 5:41 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 6:10 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 9:05 am

Strange how people who were not around at the time do not realise that.
When that same question was raised in the referendum in 1975 by people like patriotic left wing Labour party people like Shore, Benn, Foot plus Enoch Powell, well Heath and Jenkins etc who were on the other side of the debate ( pro remain in the Common Market ) said it was all scare mongering and would NOT happen !! Well we know know that they lied through their teeth !!
Also ironic that for years Labours Kinnock and Corbyn were very Anti EU, but became fans of the EU......when it suited them !

Lastly, all this business of Scotland voting to become an Independent Country in its own right. Ok so if that happened, what next ? A rush to join the EU then after a long waiting period, join the EU, to then lose the freedom of being an Independence Country that it had fought to gain and then be absorbed into the EU block and be forced to put up a hard border between its biggest trading partner, the Uk !!
Strange thinking that one ?

You misunderstand it's England we want rid of. Who cares if we get absorbed into the EU Block so long as we can be independent from our colonial masters.

Besides isn't there the power of veto in the EU for its members?

Max, the way things are going, nobody is going to be independent. Brussels will be running everything in a Ferderal superstate. Like I've already stated, I now believe Brexit won't happen. With that in mind, what excuse would the SNP have for a second referendum on Scottish independence apart from hatred of England.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 6:37 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 5:41 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 6:10 pm

You misunderstand it's England we want rid of. Who cares if we get absorbed into the EU Block so long as we can be independent from our colonial masters.

Besides isn't there the power of veto in the EU for its members?

Max, the way things are going, nobody is going to be independent. Brussels will be running everything in a Ferderal superstate. Like I've already stated, I now believe Brexit won't happen. With that in mind, what excuse would the SNP have for a second referendum on Scottish independence apart from hatred of England.

Are you for real? Hatred is the rocket fuel for humanity.

Thor wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 10:27 pm Thats what happens when you munch on the rug!

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 5:31 pm

EH16 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 4:19 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 11:10 pm

The £9m or whatever it was propaganda that Cameron sent to every home was quite clear on what would happen if we voted to leave, not sure why it’s being ignored now though. Well I do but....

But it's not being ignored is it? We voted to leave and we're leaving. I don't get how that's ignoring the result.

We're NOT leaving. Parliament won't allow it.

Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 5:02 pm

greyhound wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:17 pm if Brexit does not happen believe me there will be hell to play.
Conservatives and Labour will feel the wrath of the people.
I for one will never vote again.

Hurrah! Finally, a right wing stance on Brexit I can really get behind.

KMT

Thor wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 10:27 pm Thats what happens when you munch on the rug!

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 8:23 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 6:37 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 5:41 pm

Max, the way things are going, nobody is going to be independent. Brussels will be running everything in a Ferderal superstate. Like I've already stated, I now believe Brexit won't happen. With that in mind, what excuse would the SNP have for a second referendum on Scottish independence apart from hatred of England.

Are you for real? Hatred is the rocket fuel for humanity.

That's the impression the SNP gives me. Nicola Sturgeon comes across as one really bitter woman.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 9:03 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 8:23 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 6:37 pm

Are you for real? Hatred is the rocket fuel for humanity.

That's the impression the SNP gives me. Nicola Sturgeon comes across as one really bitter woman.

Complains when people generalise about the Brexit movement, then does the exact same thing to the Scottish independence movement. Complains about a democratic legitimacy deficit with the UK and EU, can't see the issue with Scotland being consistently ruled by a political party that hasn't had a Scottish majority in about half a century.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 9:19 am But they had a vote on independence.

EH16 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 9:19 am

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 9:03 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 8:23 pm

That's the impression the SNP gives me. Nicola Sturgeon comes across as one really bitter woman.

Complains when people generalise about the Brexit movement, then does the exact same thing to the Scottish independence movement. Complains about a democratic legitimacy deficit with the UK and EU, can't see the issue with Scotland being consistently ruled by a political party that hasn't had a Scottish majority in about half a century.

Most votes overall - 1959. Most seats - 1954

EH16 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 9:24 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 9:19 am But they had a vote on independence.

Since when circumstances have changed radically. It's a bit tedious to have to explain this AGAIN but here we go.... During the referendum a large element of project fear was lying to people that Scotland would lose membership of the EU by voting for independence. Now, here we are about to be dragged out of the EU despite 62% voting to stay in. Are you with me yet?

StillSpike wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 9:31 am And again in 2001 - similar results and a Labour Govt in Westminster

And 2005