Probably not. If voting ever changed anything it would be abolished. Just keep on obeying.
Brexit
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- Max B Gold
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Re: Brexit
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Re: Brexit
But it's not being ignored is it? We voted to leave and we're leaving. I don't get how that's ignoring the result.Thor wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 11:10 pmThe £9m or whatever it was propaganda that Cameron sent to every home was quite clear on what would happen if we voted to leave, not sure why it’s being ignored now though. Well I do but....EH16 wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:39 pmStill don't see that. The referendum vote was to leave and that's what we're doing unless there's another (democratic) vote which changes that. The issue is under what conditions we leave and that wasn't a choice given in the referendum. It's now our (democratically elected) MP's who can't come to an agreement as to what those conditions should be. How's that ignoring democracy?
Your own individual wishes may be being ignored but that's the price you pay for living in a democracy.
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Re: Brexit
How is it a remainer Parliament? It's MP's who want to leave that are preventing it from happening.RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 1:05 amHonestly ,It's crystal clear to me now that Brexit isn't going to happen . I blame Theresa May and a Remainer Parliament . It was Parliament who voted to give us a referendum in the first place and said they would abide by the result ,then went back in their word . I think the Brexit Party will win the EU Elections but it won't change a thing , we're staying. The establishment is just too powerful and Parliament won't allow it . God only knows what damage this has done to our democracy . Short term we'll be more prosperous but long term I think it will all end in tears.Disoriented wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 6:58 pmDo you really think it won’t happen now Red and if so, who is to blame?RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 4:52 pm As everybody knows on here, I'm a passionate Brexiteer but even I concede its now not going to happen. Max can now also kiss Scottish independence goodbye because that's not going to happen either. Might as well end this thread right now. Independence is a thing of the past. We're all going to end up living in a federal superstate called Europe. Get used to it folks.
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Re: Brexit
You know why, that new treaty is sh*t. It was estimated that over 73% of our MP's favour remain therefore its a Remain Parliament.
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Re: Brexit
We're NOT leaving. Parliament won't allow it.EH16 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 4:19 pmBut it's not being ignored is it? We voted to leave and we're leaving. I don't get how that's ignoring the result.Thor wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 11:10 pmThe £9m or whatever it was propaganda that Cameron sent to every home was quite clear on what would happen if we voted to leave, not sure why it’s being ignored now though. Well I do but....EH16 wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 2:39 pm
Still don't see that. The referendum vote was to leave and that's what we're doing unless there's another (democratic) vote which changes that. The issue is under what conditions we leave and that wasn't a choice given in the referendum. It's now our (democratically elected) MP's who can't come to an agreement as to what those conditions should be. How's that ignoring democracy?
Your own individual wishes may be being ignored but that's the price you pay for living in a democracy.
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Re: Brexit
Max, the way things are going, nobody is going to be independent. Brussels will be running everything in a Ferderal superstate. Like I've already stated, I now believe Brexit won't happen. With that in mind, what excuse would the SNP have for a second referendum on Scottish independence apart from hatred of England.Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 6:10 pmYou misunderstand it's England we want rid of. Who cares if we get absorbed into the EU Block so long as we can be independent from our colonial masters.Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 9:05 amStrange how people who were not around at the time do not realise that.
When that same question was raised in the referendum in 1975 by people like patriotic left wing Labour party people like Shore, Benn, Foot plus Enoch Powell, well Heath and Jenkins etc who were on the other side of the debate ( pro remain in the Common Market ) said it was all scare mongering and would NOT happen !! Well we know know that they lied through their teeth !!
Also ironic that for years Labours Kinnock and Corbyn were very Anti EU, but became fans of the EU......when it suited them !
Lastly, all this business of Scotland voting to become an Independent Country in its own right. Ok so if that happened, what next ? A rush to join the EU then after a long waiting period, join the EU, to then lose the freedom of being an Independence Country that it had fought to gain and then be absorbed into the EU block and be forced to put up a hard border between its biggest trading partner, the Uk !!
Strange thinking that one ?
Besides isn't there the power of veto in the EU for its members?
- Max B Gold
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Re: Brexit
Are you for real? Hatred is the rocket fuel for humanity.RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 5:41 pmMax, the way things are going, nobody is going to be independent. Brussels will be running everything in a Ferderal superstate. Like I've already stated, I now believe Brexit won't happen. With that in mind, what excuse would the SNP have for a second referendum on Scottish independence apart from hatred of England.Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 6:10 pmYou misunderstand it's England we want rid of. Who cares if we get absorbed into the EU Block so long as we can be independent from our colonial masters.Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 9:05 am
Strange how people who were not around at the time do not realise that.
When that same question was raised in the referendum in 1975 by people like patriotic left wing Labour party people like Shore, Benn, Foot plus Enoch Powell, well Heath and Jenkins etc who were on the other side of the debate ( pro remain in the Common Market ) said it was all scare mongering and would NOT happen !! Well we know know that they lied through their teeth !!
Also ironic that for years Labours Kinnock and Corbyn were very Anti EU, but became fans of the EU......when it suited them !
Lastly, all this business of Scotland voting to become an Independent Country in its own right. Ok so if that happened, what next ? A rush to join the EU then after a long waiting period, join the EU, to then lose the freedom of being an Independence Country that it had fought to gain and then be absorbed into the EU block and be forced to put up a hard border between its biggest trading partner, the Uk !!
Strange thinking that one ?
Besides isn't there the power of veto in the EU for its members?
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Re: Brexit
That's the impression the SNP gives me. Nicola Sturgeon comes across as one really bitter woman.Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 6:37 pmAre you for real? Hatred is the rocket fuel for humanity.RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 5:41 pmMax, the way things are going, nobody is going to be independent. Brussels will be running everything in a Ferderal superstate. Like I've already stated, I now believe Brexit won't happen. With that in mind, what excuse would the SNP have for a second referendum on Scottish independence apart from hatred of England.Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 6:10 pm
You misunderstand it's England we want rid of. Who cares if we get absorbed into the EU Block so long as we can be independent from our colonial masters.
Besides isn't there the power of veto in the EU for its members?
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Re: Brexit
That's simply not true. As of right now the UK WILL be leaving. All that remains is to agree the exact terms on which that takes place.RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 5:31 pmWe're NOT leaving. Parliament won't allow it.
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Re: Brexit
should have added will vote for the Brexit party though.Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 5:02 pmHurrah! Finally, a right wing stance on Brexit I can really get behind.
KMT
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Re: Brexit
Complains when people generalise about the Brexit movement, then does the exact same thing to the Scottish independence movement. Complains about a democratic legitimacy deficit with the UK and EU, can't see the issue with Scotland being consistently ruled by a political party that hasn't had a Scottish majority in about half a century.RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 8:23 pmThat's the impression the SNP gives me. Nicola Sturgeon comes across as one really bitter woman.Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 6:37 pmAre you for real? Hatred is the rocket fuel for humanity.RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 5:41 pm
Max, the way things are going, nobody is going to be independent. Brussels will be running everything in a Ferderal superstate. Like I've already stated, I now believe Brexit won't happen. With that in mind, what excuse would the SNP have for a second referendum on Scottish independence apart from hatred of England.
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Re: Brexit
Most votes overall - 1959. Most seats - 1954Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 9:03 amComplains when people generalise about the Brexit movement, then does the exact same thing to the Scottish independence movement. Complains about a democratic legitimacy deficit with the UK and EU, can't see the issue with Scotland being consistently ruled by a political party that hasn't had a Scottish majority in about half a century.RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 8:23 pmThat's the impression the SNP gives me. Nicola Sturgeon comes across as one really bitter woman.Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 6:37 pm
Are you for real? Hatred is the rocket fuel for humanity.
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Re: Brexit
Since when circumstances have changed radically. It's a bit tedious to have to explain this AGAIN but here we go.... During the referendum a large element of project fear was lying to people that Scotland would lose membership of the EU by voting for independence. Now, here we are about to be dragged out of the EU despite 62% voting to stay in. Are you with me yet?
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Re: Brexit
Unless I've misunderstood the point Mista raised, didn't Scotland vote for Labour in 1997 - 45% of the vote and 56 seats - and get a Labour Govt in Westminster? No so-called "democratic deficit" then.EH16 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 9:19 amMost votes overall - 1959. Most seats - 1954Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 9:03 amComplains when people generalise about the Brexit movement, then does the exact same thing to the Scottish independence movement. Complains about a democratic legitimacy deficit with the UK and EU, can't see the issue with Scotland being consistently ruled by a political party that hasn't had a Scottish majority in about half a century.RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 8:23 pm
That's the impression the SNP gives me. Nicola Sturgeon comes across as one really bitter woman.
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Re: Brexit
But indyref wasn't a vote on being in the EU. You voted to stay with us and that means abiding by whatever comes after.EH16 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 9:24 amSince when circumstances have changed radically. It's a bit tedious to have to explain this AGAIN but here we go.... During the referendum a large element of project fear was lying to people that Scotland would lose membership of the EU by voting for independence. Now, here we are about to be dragged out of the EU despite 62% voting to stay in. Are you with me yet?
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Re: Brexit
Yep, turned their backs on Labour. Now complaining about having a Tory govt.StillSpike wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 9:31 am And again in 2001 - similar results and a Labour Govt in Westminster
And 2005
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Re: Brexit
Immigrant Gina Miller telling the Uk how to vote now. Set up a webpage with tactical voting options.