Pronouns

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Help an old fart out here. Just been listening to Kate Tempest on the radio and it turns out she changed her name to Kae , is non-binary and is using the pronouns they/them. All fine so far.

When the presenter is talking about Kae, she’s using those Pronouns correctly. When Kae is talking about themselves, they are using the pronoun ‘I’.

Should they not be using ‘We’?

Anyone over 40 and right wing can ignore this thread, ta.

[oxo]

No, they shouldn't be using the pronoun 'we' because 'they' isn't plural in this context.

Most people already use 'they' in certain contexts to refer to a person whose gender they don't know:

"The doctor called about my X-ray"
"What did they say?"

Strictly speaking, you might say "What did he or she say", but I don't think I know anybody who uses the Queen's English.

So I reckon 'themselves' would be 'themself' here. Sounds dead awkward, but who cares, language/grammar/usage changes all the time.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

I don’t know but big fan of Kae - music and writing. Missed her new song on 6 music this morning, any good?

[Long slender neck]

I don’t know but big fan of Kae - music and writing. Missed her new song on 6 music this morning, any good?

Ahem, 'her'?

[Long slender neck]

Help an old fart out here. Just been listening to Kate Tempest on the radio and it turns out she changed her name to Kae , is non-binary and is using the pronouns they/them. All fine so far.

When the presenter is talking about Kae, she’s using those Pronouns correctly. When Kae is talking about themselves, they are using the pronoun ‘I’.

Should they not be using ‘We’?

Anyone over 40 and right wing can ignore this thread, ta.

Isnt the above wrong?

[oxo]

Really liked their book from a couple of years ago, 'On Connection'

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

No, they shouldn't be using the pronoun 'we' because 'they' isn't plural in this context.

Most people already use 'they' in certain contexts to refer to a person whose gender they don't know:

"The doctor called about my X-ray"
"What did they say?"

Strictly speaking, you might say "What did he or she say", but I don't think I know anybody who uses the Queen's English.

So I reckon 'themselves' would be 'themself' here. Sounds dead awkward, but who cares, language/grammar/usage changes all the time.

Thank you.

My mistake here is thinking non-binary means both ‘he’ and ‘she’, right?

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Help an old fart out here. Just been listening to Kate Tempest on the radio and it turns out she changed her name to Kae , is non-binary and is using the pronouns they/them. All fine so far.

When the presenter is talking about Kae, she’s using those Pronouns correctly. When Kae is talking about themselves, they are using the pronoun ‘I’.

Should they not be using ‘We’?

Anyone over 40 and right wing can ignore this thread, ta.

Isnt the above wrong?

I don’t know.

I deliberately went with the pronouns that Kate as was then would have been using, hence the ‘she changed her name’.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

I don’t know but big fan of Kae - music and writing. Missed her new song on 6 music this morning, any good?

Didn’t listen, was too busy googling why they kept referring to K Tempest.

[Story of O]

I don’t know but big fan of Kae - music and writing. Missed her new song on 6 music this morning, any good?

Ahem, 'her'?

What's the problem? She is entitled to identify herself however she wants to, but why should we all have to recognise that and change how we talk about a person on a message board. I myself have just realised I have typed "she". There is no intention to offend it is just a word I have used for the past 50+ years without thinking

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

I don’t know but big fan of Kae - music and writing. Missed her new song on 6 music this morning, any good?

Ahem, 'her'?

What's the problem? She is entitled to identify herself however she wants to, but why should we all have to recognise that and change how we talk about a person on a message board. I myself have just realised I have typed "she". There is no intention to offend it is just a word I have used for the past 50+ years without thinking

You were advised to stay off this.

[oxo]

No, they shouldn't be using the pronoun 'we' because 'they' isn't plural in this context.

Most people already use 'they' in certain contexts to refer to a person whose gender they don't know:

"The doctor called about my X-ray"
"What did they say?"

Strictly speaking, you might say "What did he or she say", but I don't think I know anybody who uses the Queen's English.

So I reckon 'themselves' would be 'themself' here. Sounds dead awkward, but who cares, language/grammar/usage changes all the time.

Thank you.

My mistake here is thinking non-binary means both ‘he’ and ‘she’, right?

Yeah, I imagine some non-binary people might experience a 'mixed' gender experience and others might not identify with either gender (though I've never spoken to somebody who identifies this way about their internal experience).

Either way, I don't think any gender identification is associated with a feeling of having more than one distinct consciousness (think that would be classed as dissociative identity disorder).

[oxo]

Help an old fart out here. Just been listening to Kate Tempest on the radio and it turns out she changed her name to Kae , is non-binary and is using the pronouns they/them. All fine so far.

When the presenter is talking about Kae, she’s using those Pronouns correctly. When Kae is talking about themselves, they are using the pronoun ‘I’.

Should they not be using ‘We’?

Anyone over 40 and right wing can ignore this thread, ta.

Isnt the above wrong?

I don’t know.

I deliberately went with the pronouns that Kate as was then would have been using, hence the ‘she changed her name’.

Think the general etiquette is to use a person's current pronouns regardless of the part of their life you're referring to (though the impression I get is that Kae Tempest wouldn't take exception to an example like this as you're clearly making the effort to get your head around what is a fairly new concept for most people).

[Dunners]

As a 39 year old lefty, I think that "I" just sounds right when referring to yourself. Referring to yourself as "we" or "themselves" just sounds awkward or pretentious .

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

As a 39 year old lefty

That’s really pushing the boundaries of self identification.

[A Pedant]

No, they shouldn't be using the pronoun 'we' because 'they' isn't plural in this context.

Most people already use 'they' in certain contexts to refer to a person whose gender they don't know:

"The doctor called about my X-ray"
"What did they say?"

Strictly speaking, you might say "What did he or she say", but I don't think I know anybody who uses the Queen's English.

So I reckon 'themselves' would be 'themself' here. Sounds dead awkward, but who cares, language/grammar/usage changes all the time.

The 'singular they' has been around for a long time, and 'themself' is indeed a recognised term.

[Real Al]

They should refer to themself as myself, surely?

Isn't that quite common in Ireland

[oxo]

I think there's been a bit of a misunderstanding here.

Everybody (including trans and non-binary people) uses the same first-person pronouns ('I', 'me', 'myself') because these words don't have any gender connotations.

'Themself' would be a word for referring to somebody in place of 'himself' or 'herself' in the same way that 'them' is used in place of 'he' or 'she'.

[Dunners]

Surely this would be an opportunity to reintroduce some older pronouns, such as thou, thee, thy, thine and thyself?

[StillSpike]

I think there's been a bit of a misunderstanding here.

Everybody (including trans and non-binary people) uses the same first-person pronouns ('I', 'me', 'myself') because these words don't have any gender connotations.

'Themself' would be a word for referring to somebody in place of 'himself' or 'herself' in the same way that 'them' is used in place of 'he' or 'she'.

Personally, one uses "one". This also avoids any confusion about how many of us there are/is.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

I don’t know but big fan of Kae - music and writing. Missed her new song on 6 music this morning, any good?

Ahem, 'her'?

Ffs

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Really liked their book from a couple of years ago, 'On Connection'

Got myself a signed copy and just finished that funnily enough. Very fitting for the covid world we live in.

[Max B Gold]

I don’t know but big fan of Kae - music and writing. Missed her new song on 6 music this morning, any good?

Ahem, 'her'?

Ffs

Who the hell is this Kea geezer?

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Ahem, 'her'?

Ffs

Who the hell is this Kea geezer?

My gens Billy Bragg…

[Max B Gold]

Ffs

Who the hell is this Kea geezer?

My gens Billy Bragg…

Quite liking that. Is it in the Hit Parade?