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For what gain?BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:00 am The audacity to want to change the name of a few schools and art centres to reflect a better society.
So we're not celebrating slave owners and slave tradersHeyO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:57 amFor what gain?BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:00 am The audacity to want to change the name of a few schools and art centres to reflect a better society.
It's a start though. It's a tangible way of showing the black community that we oppose that part of our history.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:04 pm Like i've said elsewhere...statues are statues, they aren't a representation of all history or the nuances. I understand that there's no argument for some statues and for others its a complex issue.
One thing that I would say, is that history is how we got here but focussing on the present and the future is how we can improve. Things have happened to get us hear and we need to understand them but I'd imagine that the worries and terror felt by BAME people on a daily basis from police and from some of the public are more important for everyone to focus on solving rather than pulling down a 200 year old statue.
Agree - but that's mostly what it is, a showing of unity with the cause but not an action that will realistically change the issues that black people face day to day.BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:12 pmIt's a start though. It's a tangible way of showing the black community that we oppose that part of our history.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:04 pm Like i've said elsewhere...statues are statues, they aren't a representation of all history or the nuances. I understand that there's no argument for some statues and for others its a complex issue.
One thing that I would say, is that history is how we got here but focussing on the present and the future is how we can improve. Things have happened to get us hear and we need to understand them but I'd imagine that the worries and terror felt by BAME people on a daily basis from police and from some of the public are more important for everyone to focus on solving rather than pulling down a 200 year old statue.
Who is ‘celebrating’?BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:58 amSo we're not celebrating slave owners and slave tradersHeyO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:57 amFor what gain?BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:00 am The audacity to want to change the name of a few schools and art centres to reflect a better society.
George wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:32 pm Why do the problems America has with discrimination, spill over to the UK. We cannot compare the steps we have taken to eliminate the same discrimination ,with the USAs historic Reluctance to do likewise.
It’s time we had an honest discussion about racism.
Nobody can say that the UK isn’t in a better place than it was 50 years ago.
For every example of black inequality we are told about , I can give two examples where the opposite applies.
Where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites. It isn’t in schools , in the workplace , or in sport.
I live in an area where private schools are full of predominantly Asian or Afro Caribbean children. Where’s the inequality there.
I belong to a cricket club where the captain is Asian , as are 70% of the playing members. Where’s the inequality there.
I have a job in the city where I answer to an Asian boss. Where’s the inequality there.
I appreciate that it still isn’t perfect , but we are years ahead of Trumps USA. That’s where true inequality shines through.
Except of course the campaign isn't against statues.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:09 pm I reckon support of most of the public was lost when the left started this ridiculous campaign against statues.
What have we put in place that they haven't put in place, George?George wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:32 pm Why do the problems America has with discrimination, spill over to the UK. We cannot compare the steps we have taken to eliminate the same discrimination ,with the USAs historic Reluctance to do likewise.
It’s time we had an honest discussion about racism.
Nobody can say that the UK isn’t in a better place than it was 50 years ago.
For every example of black inequality we are told about , I can give two examples where the opposite applies.
Where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites. It isn’t in schools , in the workplace , or in sport.
I live in an area where private schools are full of predominantly Asian or Afro Caribbean children. Where’s the inequality there.
I belong to a cricket club where the captain is Asian , as are 70% of the playing members. Where’s the inequality there.
I have a job in the city where I answer to an Asian boss. Where’s the inequality there.
I appreciate that it still isn’t perfect , but we are years ahead of Trumps USA. That’s where true inequality shines through.
Clearly you do not believe in a meritocracy.PoliticOs wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:19 amWhat have we put in place that they haven't put in place, George?George wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:32 pm Why do the problems America has with discrimination, spill over to the UK. We cannot compare the steps we have taken to eliminate the same discrimination ,with the USAs historic Reluctance to do likewise.
It’s time we had an honest discussion about racism.
Nobody can say that the UK isn’t in a better place than it was 50 years ago.
For every example of black inequality we are told about , I can give two examples where the opposite applies.
Where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites. It isn’t in schools , in the workplace , or in sport.
I live in an area where private schools are full of predominantly Asian or Afro Caribbean children. Where’s the inequality there.
I belong to a cricket club where the captain is Asian , as are 70% of the playing members. Where’s the inequality there.
I have a job in the city where I answer to an Asian boss. Where’s the inequality there.
I appreciate that it still isn’t perfect , but we are years ahead of Trumps USA. That’s where true inequality shines through.
Yep, we can say that the UK is in many aspects a better place now than 50 years ago. That's half a century mate, come on.
Saying 'for every example of black inequality we are told about, I can give two examples where the opposite applies' is just absolutely atrociously stupid. Do defence lawyers bring in 49 women the defendant didn't murder and say 'look, he's only murdered 2% of the women!'. That's just so ridiculous. The opposite to inequality isn't 'examples of equality'. Equality should be the default, not one end of a scale.
To give one example for each of your questions about 'where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites'?
Schools? 4000 secondary schools approx in the UK, in 2016 there were just 39 black headteachers. Workplace? 4% of white people were unemployed (pre covid) as opposed to 9% of black people, there are more FTSE100 CEO's named Steve than there are leaders from ethnic minorities combined. Sport? Something like 25% of footballers in the UK are BAME with only 6% as managers.
We might be ahead of the US, but can we not expect better or is this the best we can hope for then?
Well put DisDisoriented wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:59 amClearly you do not believe in a meritocracy.PoliticOs wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:19 amWhat have we put in place that they haven't put in place, George?George wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:32 pm Why do the problems America has with discrimination, spill over to the UK. We cannot compare the steps we have taken to eliminate the same discrimination ,with the USAs historic Reluctance to do likewise.
It’s time we had an honest discussion about racism.
Nobody can say that the UK isn’t in a better place than it was 50 years ago.
For every example of black inequality we are told about , I can give two examples where the opposite applies.
Where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites. It isn’t in schools , in the workplace , or in sport.
I live in an area where private schools are full of predominantly Asian or Afro Caribbean children. Where’s the inequality there.
I belong to a cricket club where the captain is Asian , as are 70% of the playing members. Where’s the inequality there.
I have a job in the city where I answer to an Asian boss. Where’s the inequality there.
I appreciate that it still isn’t perfect , but we are years ahead of Trumps USA. That’s where true inequality shines through.
Yep, we can say that the UK is in many aspects a better place now than 50 years ago. That's half a century mate, come on.
Saying 'for every example of black inequality we are told about, I can give two examples where the opposite applies' is just absolutely atrociously stupid. Do defence lawyers bring in 49 women the defendant didn't murder and say 'look, he's only murdered 2% of the women!'. That's just so ridiculous. The opposite to inequality isn't 'examples of equality'. Equality should be the default, not one end of a scale.
To give one example for each of your questions about 'where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites'?
Schools? 4000 secondary schools approx in the UK, in 2016 there were just 39 black headteachers. Workplace? 4% of white people were unemployed (pre covid) as opposed to 9% of black people, there are more FTSE100 CEO's named Steve than there are leaders from ethnic minorities combined. Sport? Something like 25% of footballers in the UK are BAME with only 6% as managers.
We might be ahead of the US, but can we not expect better or is this the best we can hope for then?