Topple the Racists website

[Disoriented]

Interesting and hysterical whataboutery at:

toppletheracists.org

Will there be anything left after these revisionists stop?

[HeyO]

Seems very worrying.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

It’s all a bit of bluster that will die down in a few weeks. But I hope it is the start of opening up the conversation around these sorts of things and maybe the public facing up to what the empire was really about.

[BiggsyMalone]

The audacity to want to change the name of a few schools and art centres to reflect a better society.

[HeyO]

The audacity to want to change the name of a few schools and art centres to reflect a better society.

For what gain?

[BiggsyMalone]

The audacity to want to change the name of a few schools and art centres to reflect a better society.

For what gain?

So we're not celebrating slave owners and slave traders

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Like i've said elsewhere...statues are statues, they aren't a representation of all history or the nuances. I understand that there's no argument for some statues and for others its a complex issue.

One thing that I would say, is that history is how we got here but focussing on the present and the future is how we can improve. Things have happened to get us hear and we need to understand them but I'd imagine that the worries and terror felt by BAME people on a daily basis from police and from some of the public are more important for everyone to focus on solving rather than pulling down a 200 year old statue.

[BiggsyMalone]

Like i've said elsewhere...statues are statues, they aren't a representation of all history or the nuances. I understand that there's no argument for some statues and for others its a complex issue.

One thing that I would say, is that history is how we got here but focussing on the present and the future is how we can improve. Things have happened to get us hear and we need to understand them but I'd imagine that the worries and terror felt by BAME people on a daily basis from police and from some of the public are more important for everyone to focus on solving rather than pulling down a 200 year old statue.

It's a start though. It's a tangible way of showing the black community that we oppose that part of our history.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Like i've said elsewhere...statues are statues, they aren't a representation of all history or the nuances. I understand that there's no argument for some statues and for others its a complex issue.

One thing that I would say, is that history is how we got here but focussing on the present and the future is how we can improve. Things have happened to get us hear and we need to understand them but I'd imagine that the worries and terror felt by BAME people on a daily basis from police and from some of the public are more important for everyone to focus on solving rather than pulling down a 200 year old statue.

It's a start though. It's a tangible way of showing the black community that we oppose that part of our history.

Agree - but that's mostly what it is, a showing of unity with the cause but not an action that will realistically change the issues that black people face day to day.

I think the worlds an angry place at the moment, and it has every right to be. I've been extremely sad and depressed at what's happened and I think that that anger has been physically embodied in this statues being ripped down and vandalised. It signifies more than a disagreement with a person being immortalised, in my opinion. It's people needing a way to show that they can affect things, that their pleas aren't ignored. I support that. There's a lot of people in charge right now who are racists.

Divert the anger of pulling down a slave trader from 200 years ago to Trump and Boris who are alive today and who are directly causing more racism and division for their personal gain.

[HeyO]

The audacity to want to change the name of a few schools and art centres to reflect a better society.

For what gain?

So we're not celebrating slave owners and slave traders

Who is ‘celebrating’?

[PoliticOs]

There's some very good examples in this topic of why we get too obsessed with voting for 'sensible' in this country. Just nice, middle of the ground, not too much either way, sensible. So we can have a lovely, gentle little meander towards some gentle change at some stage without anyone getting too sad.

So sensible!

[BiggsyMalone]

For what gain?

So we're not celebrating slave owners and slave traders

Who is ‘celebrating’?

The country by having them up

[George M]

Why do the problems America has with discrimination, spill over to the UK. We cannot compare the steps we have taken to eliminate the same discrimination ,with the USAs historic Reluctance to do likewise.
It’s time we had an honest discussion about racism.
Nobody can say that the UK isn’t in a better place than it was 50 years ago.
For every example of black inequality we are told about , I can give two examples where the opposite applies.
Where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites. It isn’t in schools , in the workplace , or in sport.
I live in an area where private schools are full of predominantly Asian or Afro Caribbean children. Where’s the inequality there.
I belong to a cricket club where the captain is Asian , as are 70% of the playing members. Where’s the inequality there.
I have a job in the city where I answer to an Asian boss. Where’s the inequality there.
I appreciate that it still isn’t perfect , but we are years ahead of Trumps USA. That’s where true inequality shines through.

[Stowaway]

Why do the problems America has with discrimination, spill over to the UK. We cannot compare the steps we have taken to eliminate the same discrimination ,with the USAs historic Reluctance to do likewise.
It’s time we had an honest discussion about racism.
Nobody can say that the UK isn’t in a better place than it was 50 years ago.
For every example of black inequality we are told about , I can give two examples where the opposite applies.
Where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites. It isn’t in schools , in the workplace , or in sport.
I live in an area where private schools are full of predominantly Asian or Afro Caribbean children. Where’s the inequality there.
I belong to a cricket club where the captain is Asian , as are 70% of the playing members. Where’s the inequality there.
I have a job in the city where I answer to an Asian boss. Where’s the inequality there.
I appreciate that it still isn’t perfect , but we are years ahead of Trumps USA. That’s where true inequality shines through.

So because you have a brown boss and your local cricket club unsurprisingly has a large number of south Asian members (you know, the sort of places where they love cricket, unlike the UK) you think that means there’s no inequality elsewhere?

Amazing.

[LeytonstoneRed07]

Was shown this group by my wife who works for the Leverhulme Trust. She was a little freaked out by what they were advocating

[Long slender neck]

I reckon support of most of the public was lost when the left started this ridiculous campaign against statues.

[Max B Gold]

I reckon support of most of the public was lost when the left started this ridiculous campaign against statues.

Except of course the campaign isn't against statues.

I read today that the statue of the murderer in Bristol was only put up in 1890. Two hundred years after he died.

What was that about?

[Long slender neck]

It seems very much like a campaign against statues.

[PoliticOs]

Why do the problems America has with discrimination, spill over to the UK. We cannot compare the steps we have taken to eliminate the same discrimination ,with the USAs historic Reluctance to do likewise.
It’s time we had an honest discussion about racism.
Nobody can say that the UK isn’t in a better place than it was 50 years ago.
For every example of black inequality we are told about , I can give two examples where the opposite applies.
Where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites. It isn’t in schools , in the workplace , or in sport.
I live in an area where private schools are full of predominantly Asian or Afro Caribbean children. Where’s the inequality there.
I belong to a cricket club where the captain is Asian , as are 70% of the playing members. Where’s the inequality there.
I have a job in the city where I answer to an Asian boss. Where’s the inequality there.
I appreciate that it still isn’t perfect , but we are years ahead of Trumps USA. That’s where true inequality shines through.

What have we put in place that they haven't put in place, George?

Yep, we can say that the UK is in many aspects a better place now than 50 years ago. That's half a century mate, come on.

Saying 'for every example of black inequality we are told about, I can give two examples where the opposite applies' is just absolutely atrociously stupid. Do defence lawyers bring in 49 women the defendant didn't murder and say 'look, he's only murdered 2% of the women!'. That's just so ridiculous. The opposite to inequality isn't 'examples of equality'. Equality should be the default, not one end of a scale.

To give one example for each of your questions about 'where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites'?
Schools? 4000 secondary schools approx in the UK, in 2016 there were just 39 black headteachers. Workplace? 4% of white people were unemployed (pre covid) as opposed to 9% of black people, there are more FTSE100 CEO's named Steve than there are leaders from ethnic minorities combined. Sport? Something like 25% of footballers in the UK are BAME with only 6% as managers.

We might be ahead of the US, but can we not expect better or is this the best we can hope for then?

[Disoriented]

Why do the problems America has with discrimination, spill over to the UK. We cannot compare the steps we have taken to eliminate the same discrimination ,with the USAs historic Reluctance to do likewise.
It’s time we had an honest discussion about racism.
Nobody can say that the UK isn’t in a better place than it was 50 years ago.
For every example of black inequality we are told about , I can give two examples where the opposite applies.
Where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites. It isn’t in schools , in the workplace , or in sport.
I live in an area where private schools are full of predominantly Asian or Afro Caribbean children. Where’s the inequality there.
I belong to a cricket club where the captain is Asian , as are 70% of the playing members. Where’s the inequality there.
I have a job in the city where I answer to an Asian boss. Where’s the inequality there.
I appreciate that it still isn’t perfect , but we are years ahead of Trumps USA. That’s where true inequality shines through.

What have we put in place that they haven't put in place, George?

Yep, we can say that the UK is in many aspects a better place now than 50 years ago. That's half a century mate, come on.

Saying 'for every example of black inequality we are told about, I can give two examples where the opposite applies' is just absolutely atrociously stupid. Do defence lawyers bring in 49 women the defendant didn't murder and say 'look, he's only murdered 2% of the women!'. That's just so ridiculous. The opposite to inequality isn't 'examples of equality'. Equality should be the default, not one end of a scale.

To give one example for each of your questions about 'where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites'?
Schools? 4000 secondary schools approx in the UK, in 2016 there were just 39 black headteachers. Workplace? 4% of white people were unemployed (pre covid) as opposed to 9% of black people, there are more FTSE100 CEO's named Steve than there are leaders from ethnic minorities combined. Sport? Something like 25% of footballers in the UK are BAME with only 6% as managers.

We might be ahead of the US, but can we not expect better or is this the best we can hope for then?

Clearly you do not believe in a meritocracy.

[Wally Banter]

How do feel about meritocracies where certain races start at a significant disadvantage, Dis?

[point nine one eight]

Why do the problems America has with discrimination, spill over to the UK. We cannot compare the steps we have taken to eliminate the same discrimination ,with the USAs historic Reluctance to do likewise.
It’s time we had an honest discussion about racism.
Nobody can say that the UK isn’t in a better place than it was 50 years ago.
For every example of black inequality we are told about , I can give two examples where the opposite applies.
Where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites. It isn’t in schools , in the workplace , or in sport.
I live in an area where private schools are full of predominantly Asian or Afro Caribbean children. Where’s the inequality there.
I belong to a cricket club where the captain is Asian , as are 70% of the playing members. Where’s the inequality there.
I have a job in the city where I answer to an Asian boss. Where’s the inequality there.
I appreciate that it still isn’t perfect , but we are years ahead of Trumps USA. That’s where true inequality shines through.

What have we put in place that they haven't put in place, George?

Yep, we can say that the UK is in many aspects a better place now than 50 years ago. That's half a century mate, come on.

Saying 'for every example of black inequality we are told about, I can give two examples where the opposite applies' is just absolutely atrociously stupid. Do defence lawyers bring in 49 women the defendant didn't murder and say 'look, he's only murdered 2% of the women!'. That's just so ridiculous. The opposite to inequality isn't 'examples of equality'. Equality should be the default, not one end of a scale.

To give one example for each of your questions about 'where exactly are black people not given the same opportunities as whites'?
Schools? 4000 secondary schools approx in the UK, in 2016 there were just 39 black headteachers. Workplace? 4% of white people were unemployed (pre covid) as opposed to 9% of black people, there are more FTSE100 CEO's named Steve than there are leaders from ethnic minorities combined. Sport? Something like 25% of footballers in the UK are BAME with only 6% as managers.

We might be ahead of the US, but can we not expect better or is this the best we can hope for then?

Clearly you do not believe in a meritocracy.

Well put Dis

[ContrifibulatoryFred]

Lunacy
They want Thomas Guy's statue removed, and the hospital he helped to found re-named
His crime? Investing in the South Sea Company - and losing his shirt in the process
People aren't even able to ethically invest today, so why castigate this man's name and legacy?

When are these modern-day bigots going to acknowledge that people power (ordinary British folk) was responsible for the anti-slave movement that began in Britain and spread elsewhere afterwards. We should be proud of each and every one of our forefathers who rejected this subjugation and brought about its abolition.

These attempting to re-write history from today's perspective are extremely foolish. I'm first generation Irish and accept this country warts and all, including people like Cromwell and Sir Robert Peel. No one is saying celebrate past wrongdoing, but we must not sweep away the things and people who have shaped this country, or what they meant to their contemporaries.

[George M]

PoliticOs

All good points and I did say that it wasn’t perfect. But where are the figures showing how many black people applied for these jobs.
If we talk about football managers , how many English managers are there ? Presumably a discussion about racism is not just about colour. There are few successful football managers. There have been black football managers and still are but they have not been good enough yet to manage a top team. But then in recent years , nor have English managers.I suspect that will change for both.
There are black heads of schools , the Mayor of London is black as is the Home Secretary.
But to prove that black people are not given equal opportunities in the workplace needs to be backed up with numbers.Lets see the list of applicants for these top jobs. How diverse is the list. We can only guess.
I can only comment on my racial experiences and I live in the greatest multicultural city in the world. We usually only hear complaints from one side of the argument, but I know that there are more integrated and successful people of different race out there than care to speak.

[George M]

It would help , I believe, if successful people of different ethnicity praised the UK for encouraging diversity and opportunity in the workplace. Something positive.
It’s clearly possible to succeed in the UK from whatever background you come from. There is evidence all around. Doctors , dentists , surgeons, musicians, sports stars , politicians , lawyers, accountants. The list is endless and I don’t expect many are complaining.
They need to come forward and give a different viewpoint.