Independent Leyton Orient Forum

West Side Story wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:50 am Dean Smith not been their manager for the past year.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:52 am I dont really get what you are saying? They are replacing good players with equal quality players, who are cheaper? Whys that not sustainable?

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:25 am

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:52 am I dont really get what you are saying? They are replacing good players with equal quality players, who are cheaper? Whys that not sustainable?

Are you being serious?
Was Moores a good replacement for Kitchen?
Finney for Griffiths?
The bloke who replaced the geezer we sold to Fulham for 1m
Not to mention the strike force we’ve got now.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:25 am

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:52 am I dont really get what you are saying? They are replacing good players with equal quality players, who are cheaper? Whys that not sustainable?

Are you being serious?
Was Moores a good replacement for Kitchen?
Finney for Griffiths?
The bloke who replaced the geezer we sold to Fulham for 1m
Not to mention the strike force we’ve got now.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:27 am

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:25 am

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:52 am I dont really get what you are saying? They are replacing good players with equal quality players, who are cheaper? Whys that not sustainable?

Are you being serious?
Was Moores a good replacement for Kitchen?
Finney for Griffiths?
The bloke who replaced the geezer we sold to Fulham for 1m
Not to mention the strike force we’ve got now.

You literally said "by selling your best players and replacing them with equal quality but cheaper"

Equal quality would indicate they are as good.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:43 am They don't have an academy either, just a B team. They must save a lot of expense with that.

slacker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:50 am Moneyball, innit. I suspect Teague & Travis fancy following a similar model.

Baddo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:53 am They are chasing the dream. It's all very well whilst things are going well but its a massive gamble.
From our own experience and that of many other clubs if the gamble doesn't pay off or the owner loses interest it can kill a club.

I'm happy enough living within our means where possible in the hope that we will have a season or two where things click and we have success.

Owners pumping in money scares me to be honest.

Baddo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:53 am They are chasing the dream. It's all very well whilst things are going well but its a massive gamble.
From our own experience and that of many other clubs if the gamble doesn't pay off or the owner loses interest it can kill a club.

I'm happy enough living within our means where possible in the hope that we will have a season or two where things click and we have success.

Owners pumping in money scares me to be honest.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:29 am

Baddo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:53 am They are chasing the dream. It's all very well whilst things are going well but its a massive gamble.
From our own experience and that of many other clubs if the gamble doesn't pay off or the owner loses interest it can kill a club.

I'm happy enough living within our means where possible in the hope that we will have a season or two where things click and we have success.

Owners pumping in money scares me to be honest.

I'm not sure that is quite so true for Brentford, as the model relies on selling high, buying low, which in itself is sustainable. It has a high start up cost, but if the model is successful, the club should be making a profit or breaking even.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:28 am Just been looking at Brentford, a similar size club to ours and an established Championship club.
Total wage bill 15m
Weekly loss 350k but this has been reduced by shrewd work in the transfer market where they have bought and sold well. Shows what a good manager Dean Smith is.
The owner has pumped in an incredible 113m but they are also selling their only two real assets Griffin Park 30m and their new ground for 52m which they plan to lease back.
Try to rely on keeping up with the big boys by selling your best players and replacing them with equal quality but cheaper is in my opinion not sustainable. It will be interesting in the next 5 years or so that’s for sure.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:35 am

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:29 am

Baddo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:53 am They are chasing the dream. It's all very well whilst things are going well but its a massive gamble.
From our own experience and that of many other clubs if the gamble doesn't pay off or the owner loses interest it can kill a club.

I'm happy enough living within our means where possible in the hope that we will have a season or two where things click and we have success.

Owners pumping in money scares me to be honest.

I'm not sure that is quite so true for Brentford, as the model relies on selling high, buying low, which in itself is sustainable. It has a high start up cost, but if the model is successful, the club should be making a profit or breaking even.

They’re not.
4m loss.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:34 am

Baddo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:53 am They are chasing the dream. It's all very well whilst things are going well but its a massive gamble.
From our own experience and that of many other clubs if the gamble doesn't pay off or the owner loses interest it can kill a club.

I'm happy enough living within our means where possible in the hope that we will have a season or two where things click and we have success.

Owners pumping in money scares me to be honest.

It always goes tits up when clubs live beyond their means.
Their home support has peaked at 10000. Even moving to a new ground with a capacity of 17000 is hardly sustainable, it will still be one of the smallest in the Championship.
I know people will say Bournemouth, but when they are relegated things will hit home.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:44 am

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:35 am

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:29 am

I'm not sure that is quite so true for Brentford, as the model relies on selling high, buying low, which in itself is sustainable. It has a high start up cost, but if the model is successful, the club should be making a profit or breaking even.

They’re not.
4m loss.

All it would take is for one of their recent signings to go for 15m+ and that's 4 season's worth of loss covered.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:47 am

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:34 am

Baddo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:53 am They are chasing the dream. It's all very well whilst things are going well but its a massive gamble.
From our own experience and that of many other clubs if the gamble doesn't pay off or the owner loses interest it can kill a club.

I'm happy enough living within our means where possible in the hope that we will have a season or two where things click and we have success.

Owners pumping in money scares me to be honest.

It always goes tits up when clubs live beyond their means.
Their home support has peaked at 10000. Even moving to a new ground with a capacity of 17000 is hardly sustainable, it will still be one of the smallest in the Championship.
I know people will say Bournemouth, but when they are relegated things will hit home.

Sometimes clubs have to live outside of their means, otherwise how can they ever progress. If we went and signed a player for 1m that would be us living outside of our means. If they, however, went on to be sold for 5m, it would be considered very shrewd business.

Living outside of your means only becomes an issue when you spend so recklessly that there is simply little to no chance of ever making that money back.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:47 am

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:44 am

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:35 am
They’re not.
4m loss.

All it would take is for one of their recent signings to go for 15m+ and that's 4 season's worth of loss covered.

Provided they pick him up for nothing and no sell ons.
Keep up. They haven’t got a youth system.

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:50 am

Red_Army wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:47 am

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:34 am

It always goes tits up when clubs live beyond their means.
Their home support has peaked at 10000. Even moving to a new ground with a capacity of 17000 is hardly sustainable, it will still be one of the smallest in the Championship.
I know people will say Bournemouth, but when they are relegated things will hit home.

Sometimes clubs have to live outside of their means, otherwise how can they ever progress. If we went and signed a player for 1m that would be us living outside of our means. If they, however, went on to be sold for 5m, it would be considered very shrewd business.

Living outside of your means only becomes an issue when you spend so recklessly that there is simply little to no chance of ever making that money back.

You mean signing a player from Orient for 1 m and sell him 10 months later for 3-5m?