Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Following on from the penalty thread

Feel free to add suggestions or explain how these are stupid/unworkable

1: yellow cards: for purposes of in-game discipline, a yellow carded player who is substituted has his yellow card transferred over to the player who replaces him. If the substitute gets a yellow card, he is sent off (though without a suspension for a second yellow)

Purpose: to stop cynical use of tactical yellow cards spread amongst the team, with zero consequences now there are more substitutions available.

2: penalties: awarded for denial of a goal scoring opportunity anywhere on the pitch. Perhaps use a threshold of a number on the expected goals scale for whether it constitutes a penalty?

3: goalkeeper time wasting - yellow card for first offence

I'd like to see a 'long penalty' introduced, for less serious / consequential fouls in the box. If you're slightly tripped and throw yourself over while running away from goal, not sure why that should merit a free shot from 12 yards. Make those ones a shot from the edge of the D instead.

CEB wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:11 am
2: penalties: awarded for denial of a goal scoring opportunity anywhere on the pitch. Perhaps use a threshold of a number on the expected goals scale for whether it constitutes a penalty?

You can't bring all that analysis/betting bollocks into refereeing decisions.

If it's a denial of a goal scoring opportunity, it's a red card, isn't that punishment enough?

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:31 am I'd like to see a 'long penalty' introduced, for less serious / consequential fouls in the box. If you're slightly tripped and throw yourself over while running away from goal, not sure why that should merit a free shot from 12 yards. Make those ones a shot from the edge of the D instead.

Futsal has a secondary, further out penalty spot so it's a concept with precedent. I like it.

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:31 am I'd like to see a 'long penalty' introduced, for less serious / consequential fouls in the box. If you're slightly tripped and throw yourself over while running away from goal, not sure why that should merit a free shot from 12 yards. Make those ones a shot from the edge of the D instead.

You are either tripped or you are not tripped

Prove it in court, or you're wrong.

The laws don’t need changing, they just need to be enforced properly. I recall a rule of bringing the game into disrepute. I assume this still exists? This covers diving and cheating. It should be enforced.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:32 am

CEB wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:11 am
2: penalties: awarded for denial of a goal scoring opportunity anywhere on the pitch. Perhaps use a threshold of a number on the expected goals scale for whether it constitutes a penalty?

You can't bring all that analysis/betting bollocks into refereeing decisions.

If it's a denial of a goal scoring opportunity, it's a red card, isn't that punishment enough?

No, because the detriment of a red card Vs a penalty differs at differing times of the game: a red card in the third minute is much worse than a red card in the 90th minute

Throws ins should be replaced with kick ins.

CEB wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:41 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:32 am

CEB wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:11 am
2: penalties: awarded for denial of a goal scoring opportunity anywhere on the pitch. Perhaps use a threshold of a number on the expected goals scale for whether it constitutes a penalty?

You can't bring all that analysis/betting bollocks into refereeing decisions.

If it's a denial of a goal scoring opportunity, it's a red card, isn't that punishment enough?

No, because the detriment of a red card Vs a penalty differs at differing times of the game: a red card in the third minute is much worse than a red card in the 90th minute

Yep, accepted.

Give the opponent the choice of a penalty or a red card then, rather than both. If it's early, they might choose the man advantage, if late on, they'd take the pen.

The Reverend wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:43 am Throws ins should be replaced with kick ins.

Bit harsh just for letting the ball go out of play.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:45 am

The Reverend wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:43 am Throws ins should be replaced with kick ins.

Bit harsh just for letting the ball go out of play.

Ok, 5-a-side rules: it’s replaced with a kick in but the kick in can’t go above waist height

Wow, an old school ROOOSH!

I think it's a bad outcome overall but I'm increasingly in favour of saying any time the ball hits someone's hand in the box, intentional or otherwise, it's a penalty. Would instantly take away all the bollocks, interpretation and tiresome subsequent debate about how far someone's hands are away from their body, unnatural position, how far away the cross/shot taker was etc.

Or, we could go back to how it used to be which seemed considerably less mental.

A sin bin. Any team that gets four or more yellow cards has a player put in the sin bin for 10 minutes. ( I realise we would often be playing with ten) Yellow cards should impact the game they are accrued in.

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:35 am Prove it in court, or you're wrong.

That will delay the game longer than VAR...imagine needing to wait for the result of court hearing...will make a 5 minute VAR delay seems speedy

The Reverend wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:43 am Throws ins should be replaced with kick ins.

They trialed this in the Isthmian League a few years back, but it was not a success, so it was not proceeded with

spen666 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:40 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:43 am Throws ins should be replaced with kick ins.

They trialed this in the Isthmian League a few years back, but it was not a success, so it was not proceeded with

What would constitute “success” in this scenario? Or absence of it?

CEB wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:45 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:40 pm

The Reverend wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:43 am Throws ins should be replaced with kick ins.

They trialed this in the Isthmian League a few years back, but it was not a success, so it was not proceeded with

What would constitute “success” in this scenario? Or absence of it?

You would need to ask those who ran the trial.

I was not watching Isthmian League Football in that era, so can't answer, but a google search produces lots of answers, below are a couple of them

https://the18.com/en/soccer-entertainme ... experiment

https://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/foru ... ost=561466

Interesting - though it seems bizarre because that seems entirely predictable as the outcome, to the extent that I assumed that those advocating for kick-ins wanted them to be equivalent to free kicks and to be more an attacking set piece

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:24 pm A sin bin. Any team that gets four or more yellow cards has a player put in the sin bin for 10 minutes. ( I realise we would often be playing with ten) Yellow cards should impact the game they are accrued in.

I'd also add that anyone yellow'd for diving or dissent should be automatically sin binned.

A few years back?

Offside = daylight rule
Semi automated offside system from WC implemented
Scrap VAR in its entirety

Any player who does this twice in a season
should be Shot ?

gshaw wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:30 pm Offside = daylight rule

That won't change anything. The argument will then be over what is "daylight". Whatever system or definition you use, there will always be those marginal cases, unless you screaaped offside completely ( and no I am not suggesting that is the way to go!

Semi automated offside system from WC implemented
Scrap VAR in its entirety

Wouldn't that semi-automated offside be a form of VAR? [I'm not really sure what you mean by the semi automated system from WC]