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Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:18 pm
by Story of O
I think everyone knows about the crimes of the slave trade
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:24 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Winchestorfan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:08 pm
Edward Colston. MP born 1636 died 1721.
Made some of his money as a member of Royal African Company who transported over 80,000 slaves from West Africa to the Americas.
He used much of his wealth to benefit, mainly in Bristol:
Almshouses
Hospitals
Schools
Workhouses
Churches
On his death he left £71,000.00 to charities (in today’s money that would be fortune)
Over 150 years after his death it was decided to erect this statue as a response to another statue close by of Edmund Burke, who had opposed the slave trade. The cost of the Colston statue was raised by public appeals.
The slave trade was a despicable act of trading BUT was perfectly legal, unlike today when this disgusting trade , whilst now illegal, continues in this country.
By all means object to Colston and the slave trade but removing and rewriting history will ultimately help confine the slave trade to a distant and mainly forgotten part of our blemished history. Like the Holocaust we must never forget that it happened and make our children fully aware of what was done in the past.
Therefore the statue of Colston must be reinstated along with a description of what he did, both good and bad. Likewise Auschwitz must be preserved to remind people of what atrocities happened there.
Of course Auschwitz should be preserved. But you wouldn’t put a f*cking statue of Hitler outside with a little plaque saying how he boosted Germanys economy through his bold investment in the country’s infrastructure.
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:24 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Story of O wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:18 pm
I think everyone knows about the crimes of the slave trade
Yet still statues are standing of the vile slave traders
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:27 pm
by Winchesterfan
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:24 pm
Story of O wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:18 pm
I think everyone knows about the crimes of the slave trade
Yet still statues are standing of the vile slave traders
Who will remember Colston and the slave trade if statues etc are removed? How many people had even heard of Colston or what he stood for before the current events? If there hadn’t been a disputed statue people would not have protested to the extent they have. By removing the statue we will have nothing to protest about and Colston and the slave trade will be forgotten.
Fortunately history is more resilient about Hitler and most people know of him and his appalling record. But he must always be remembered, and indeed will be, because of the existence and preservation of the concentration camps. What will there be for future generations to remind them of the slave trade and Colston?
When I was at school in the 1960’s I went to many concerts at Colston Hall and had no idea that the hall was paid for by Colston or who he was yet I knew vaguely about the slave trade. In those days the slave trade was forgotten about. Thankfully today we are much more aware of it because of Colston Hall (now Bristol Beacon) and the statue. But with both now gone, what is left to remember and protest about?
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:12 pm
by RedDwarf 1881
I was just wondering by what standards will we be judged in two or three hundred years time . That' s hoping there hasn't been a world war by then .
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:24 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Winchesterfan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:27 pm
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:24 pm
Story of O wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:18 pm
I think everyone knows about the crimes of the slave trade
Yet still statues are standing of the vile slave traders
Who will remember Colston and the slave trade if statues etc are removed? How many people had even heard of Colston or what he stood for before the current events? If there hadn’t been a disputed statue people would not have protested to the extent they have. By removing the statue we will have nothing to protest about and Colston and the slave trade will be forgotten.
Fortunately history is more resilient about Hitler and most people know of him and his appalling record. But he must always be remembered, and indeed will be, because of the existence and preservation of the concentration camps. What will there be for future generations to remind them of the slave trade and Colston?
When I was at school in the 1960’s I went to many concerts at Colston Hall and had no idea that the hall was paid for by Colston or who he was yet I knew vaguely about the slave trade. In those days the slave trade was forgotten about. Thankfully today we are much more aware of it because of Colston Hall (now Bristol Beacon) and the statue. But with both now gone, what is left to remember and protest about?
Thankfully these days we have things called books which allow people to learn stuff and remember things.
Just put our colonial slave trading past on the schools syllabus. That way we can all remember it without the need for offensive statues commemorating people traffickers.
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:35 pm
by StillSpike
If only there were some sort of system of connected computers on which one could look up this sort of information to learn about slavery. It'd certainly save making all the kids get a train to Bristol to learn about it from some ugly statue.
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:09 pm
by Max B Gold
Winchesterfan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:27 pm
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:24 pm
Story of O wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:18 pm
I think everyone knows about the crimes of the slave trade
Yet still statues are standing of the vile slave traders
Who will remember Colston and the slave trade if statues etc are removed? How many people had even heard of Colston or what he stood for before the current events? If there hadn’t been a disputed statue people would not have protested to the extent they have. By removing the statue we will have nothing to protest about and Colston and the slave trade will be forgotten.
Fortunately history is more resilient about Hitler and most people know of him and his appalling record. But he must always be remembered, and indeed will be, because of the existence and preservation of the concentration camps. What will there be for future generations to remind them of the slave trade and Colston?
When I was at school in the 1960’s I went to many concerts at Colston Hall and had no idea that the hall was paid for by Colston or who he was yet I knew vaguely about the slave trade. In those days the slave trade was forgotten about. Thankfully today we are much more aware of it because of Colston Hall (now Bristol Beacon) and the statue. But with both now gone, what is left to remember and protest about?
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 7:15 pm
by Dunners
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:24 pm
Thankfully these days we have things called books which allow people to learn stuff and remember things.
Books? Nowadays we learn everything from TikTok.
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:49 pm
by Stowaway
Winchestorfan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:08 pm
Edward Colston. MP born 1636 died 1721.
Made some of his money as a member of Royal African Company who transported over 80,000 slaves from West Africa to the Americas.
He used much of his wealth to benefit, mainly in Bristol:
Almshouses
Hospitals
Schools
Workhouses
Churches
On his death he left £71,000.00 to charities (in today’s money that would be fortune)
Over 150 years after his death it was decided to erect this statue as a response to another statue close by of Edmund Burke, who had opposed the slave trade. The cost of the Colston statue was raised by public appeals.
The slave trade was a despicable act of trading BUT was perfectly legal, unlike today when this disgusting trade , whilst now illegal, continues in this country.
By all means object to Colston and the slave trade but removing and rewriting history will ultimately help confine the slave trade to a distant and mainly forgotten part of our blemished history. Like the Holocaust we must never forget that it happened and make our children fully aware of what was done in the past.
Therefore the statue of Colston must be reinstated along with a description of what he did, both good and bad. Likewise Auschwitz must be preserved to remind people of what atrocities happened there.
No-one is “removing or rewriting history”, ffs. It’s simply that a supposedly pious man who conducted an absolutely vile business shouldn’t be celebrated, no matter how much he gave to charity afterwards.
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:35 pm
by Rich Tea Wellin
I heard hitler took in abandoned puppies.
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:16 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Stowaway wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:49 pm
Winchestorfan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:08 pm
Edward Colston. MP born 1636 died 1721.
Made some of his money as a member of Royal African Company who transported over 80,000 slaves from West Africa to the Americas.
He used much of his wealth to benefit, mainly in Bristol:
Almshouses
Hospitals
Schools
Workhouses
Churches
On his death he left £71,000.00 to charities (in today’s money that would be fortune)
Over 150 years after his death it was decided to erect this statue as a response to another statue close by of Edmund Burke, who had opposed the slave trade. The cost of the Colston statue was raised by public appeals.
The slave trade was a despicable act of trading BUT was perfectly legal, unlike today when this disgusting trade , whilst now illegal, continues in this country.
By all means object to Colston and the slave trade but removing and rewriting history will ultimately help confine the slave trade to a distant and mainly forgotten part of our blemished history. Like the Holocaust we must never forget that it happened and make our children fully aware of what was done in the past.
Therefore the statue of Colston must be reinstated along with a description of what he did, both good and bad. Likewise Auschwitz must be preserved to remind people of what atrocities happened there.
No-one is “removing or rewriting history”, ffs. It’s simply that a supposedly pious man who conducted an absolutely vile business shouldn’t be celebrated, no matter how much he gave to charity afterwards.
BUT HOW ELSE WILL WE REMEMBER THE SLAVE TRADE?
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:58 pm
by StillSpike
In case anyone is interested, here's a barrister's blog which covers many of the canards put forward over the last few pages. It's quite interesting and worth a full reading.
https://thesecretbarrister.com/2022/01/ ... know/?s=09
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:11 pm
by tuffers#1
not sure thats worked spike .
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:19 pm
by StillSpike
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:25 pm
by Simple Man
Can't we accept history and understand we should learn from the mistakes made.
Ignoring history is not an enabler to create change for the good of mankind.
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:42 pm
by greyhound
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:24 pm
Story of O wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:18 pm
I think everyone knows about the crimes of the slave trade
Yet still statues are standing of the vile slave traders
so is the houses of parliament
there has been a load of dodgy .... in its time.
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:57 pm
by Thor
Can we now tear down the statue of Karl Marx? At least we’d get away with it in court!
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:00 pm
by StillSpike
Do try reading the barrister's blog before posting such tripe. Especially the bit about Precedent (item 10)
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:09 pm
by Max B Gold
Thor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:57 pm
Can we now tear down the statue of Karl Marx? At least we’d get away with it in court!
Desecrating the grave of a Jewish man is one point of view I suppose. Didn't have you down as an Anti-Semite.
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:29 pm
by tuffers#1
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:09 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:57 pm
Can we now tear down the statue of Karl Marx? At least we’d get away with it in court!
Desecrating the grave of a Jewish man is one point of view I suppose. Didn't have you down as an Anti-Semite.
He's ante most stuff id say !
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:58 pm
by Thor
StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:00 pm
Do try reading the barrister's blog before posting such tripe. Especially the bit about Precedent (item 10)
I was joking spike! Making the point one of the mp's made in that report you posted. Thanks for posting that it was well worth reading.
That is why solicitors and more likely barristers make such huge sums as they use the law to their clients advantage.
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:02 pm
by Thor
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:09 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:57 pm
Can we now tear down the statue of Karl Marx? At least we’d get away with it in court!
Desecrating the grave of a Jewish man is one point of view I suppose. Didn't have you down as an Anti-Semite.
It was a joke max. I do object to people who vandalise, steal i absolutely hate those types of behaviour.
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:21 pm
by Stowaway
I read that yesterday, an excellent piece. A pity that Farrago himself hadn’t read it before embarrassing himself on air yet again on Any Answers this afternoon.
This is Priticularly good -
“Michael Fabricant suggested he would bring the intellectual might of the Home Secretary to bear on the case”
Re: Protecting Statues
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:31 pm
by Max B Gold
Thor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:02 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:09 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:57 pm
Can we now tear down the statue of Karl Marx? At least we’d get away with it in court!
Desecrating the grave of a Jewish man is one point of view I suppose. Didn't have you down as an Anti-Semite.
It was a joke max. I do object to people who vandalise, steal i absolutely hate those types of behaviour.
What's funny about desecrating the grave of a Jewish man? I'm not laughing. You need to get a grip this is all going TTM.