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Suffering is suffering.BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:19 pm No one is disputing poor white people suffer. Poor white people just don't suffer on the basis of their skin colour. This country has a huge class divide and a fractured working class because a lot of them have been persuaded by racist ideology. Akala speaks very well on this topic.
Do some reading.HeyO wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:56 pmSuffering is suffering.BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:19 pm No one is disputing poor white people suffer. Poor white people just don't suffer on the basis of their skin colour. This country has a huge class divide and a fractured working class because a lot of them have been persuaded by racist ideology. Akala speaks very well on this topic.
I do - incessantly.BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:20 amDo some reading.HeyO wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:56 pmSuffering is suffering.BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:19 pm No one is disputing poor white people suffer. Poor white people just don't suffer on the basis of their skin colour. This country has a huge class divide and a fractured working class because a lot of them have been persuaded by racist ideology. Akala speaks very well on this topic.
I'm not an extremist by any means.Disoriented wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:21 pm Seems to be the only ‘racist’ thread unlocked.
The topic has certainly brought the extremists out of the closet.
Ornchurch, I'm gonna try to reply to this hopefully without seeming sarky or by being patronising. You and I seem to be far apart on our views on this sort of thing, but I want to be constructive.Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:07 pmI'm not an extremist by any means.Disoriented wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:21 pm Seems to be the only ‘racist’ thread unlocked.
The topic has certainly brought the extremists out of the closet.
I just challenge what I feel are the biased comments that are posted. If people feel that me disagreeing with them makes me racist then so be it. Unfortunately that seems to be the way it is nowadays.
If they were random white men going home from work in london maybe so , but when there were mini -busses filled from as far as the North East , there hardly random white men.Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:25 pm I am against racism and support the BLM movement.
However I feel that there is a fine line between this and reverse racism, as we 'discussed' re AJ's comments last week. There also appears to be a growing feeling that whites can be racist but cannot be the victims of racism. As we saw this weekend the examples of single white men being ambushed and kicked to sh*t were met by comments like 'he deserved it' whereas if the roles had been reversed there would have been outrage.
I am also uncomfortable about the latest phenomenon of 'white supremacy'. There was no supremacy about my upbringing and I have never felt superior to any other person in my life.
These are the issues that I will argue back on. Other issues, such as the statues, I will more than likely agree with. The so-called FLA should not have been 'protesting' at the weekend, some of their behaviour was diabolical such as attacking the picnickers in Hyde Park but I'm not agreeing with Nuneaton when he posts pictures of people 'doing Nazi signs' when they are no more than chanting with their arms outstretched like they do at matches every week. It's a bit like years ago when a journalist wrote an article that Brighton fans were singing 'Sieg Heil' when they were actually singing their usual chant of 'Sea-gulls'.
I am comfortable with myself so that is why I say that I am not bothered if unknown people on a messageboard call me racist. It is a term that is thrown around far too casually now, along with a load of other 'ists' that in my view it detracts from serious examples and the actual purpose of fighting racism.
Apologies. I put white supremacy but I actually meant white privilege. Totally accept your point about groups like the KKK and agree with your views on them.PoliticOs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:49 pm Thank you for the considered post. I appreciate that. And your points.
I'd suggest that the 'he deserved it' thing is due to the fact as you say, they just shouldn't have been there and their reasons behind it are questionable so it is going to be a logical conclusion for many that they are anti anti-racists.
RE: the 'no reverse racism' thing, again in the danger of sounding patronising but not attempting to; have you read much into why these people believe this? Why they believe in the UK that white people can experience racial prejudice or examples of prejudice but not racism itself? I think it definitely sounds like the sort of thing people will understandably struggle to get their heads round - but if you haven't, I'd seriously recommend it.
The case for white supremacy isn't that every white believes they are superior, so the fact that you don't identify with that doesn't really come into it. Although I'm glad you don't. I'm sure you accept there ARE white supremacists like the KKK, so is it totally unbelievable that may be on the grow?
I was speaking with someone on this today and we were discussing how the out and out racists are obviously a horrendous problem, but the bigger issue are the more subtle racists, the casual racists. The ones that don't want their daughter to have a black boyfriend, or won't hire someone with a 'funny sounding name' in case their accent is too strong, or have a ceiling in their head for the potential of black people or a manner of other microaggressions. I'd consider those things obvious examples of racism, someone else may consider it 'casual'. What we believe is and isn't casual in the UK is dated. Young people seem to be better at not accepting this and therefore the line of 'that is racist' is now being publicly drawn earlier, so I'd suggest you are absolutely hearing it more, but I'd also suggest that is just progression. Thanks for your thoughts.
It doesn't matter who they were or how they got there it was still single people being picked off by groups.tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:22 pmIf they were random white men going home from work in london maybe so , but when there were mini -busses filled from as far as the North East , there hardly random white men.Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:25 pm I am against racism and support the BLM movement.
However I feel that there is a fine line between this and reverse racism, as we 'discussed' re AJ's comments last week. There also appears to be a growing feeling that whites can be racist but cannot be the victims of racism. As we saw this weekend the examples of single white men being ambushed and kicked to sh*t were met by comments like 'he deserved it' whereas if the roles had been reversed there would have been outrage.
I am also uncomfortable about the latest phenomenon of 'white supremacy'. There was no supremacy about my upbringing and I have never felt superior to any other person in my life.
These are the issues that I will argue back on. Other issues, such as the statues, I will more than likely agree with. The so-called FLA should not have been 'protesting' at the weekend, some of their behaviour was diabolical such as attacking the picnickers in Hyde Park but I'm not agreeing with Nuneaton when he posts pictures of people 'doing Nazi signs' when they are no more than chanting with their arms outstretched like they do at matches every week. It's a bit like years ago when a journalist wrote an article that Brighton fans were singing 'Sieg Heil' when they were actually singing their usual chant of 'Sea-gulls'.
I am comfortable with myself so that is why I say that I am not bothered if unknown people on a messageboard call me racist. It is a term that is thrown around far too casually now, along with a load of other 'ists' that in my view it detracts from serious examples and the actual purpose of fighting racism.
That makes more sense. White privilege doesn't mean that all white people are ahead of other non white people, it just means they are unlikely to be discriminated against due to it. I.e if there is a white, disabled, working class woman, she is going to have less privilege than a rich, black, able bodied male. Obviously it is deeper than this, but for ease of example. She is going to face discrimination due to being disabled, working class and a woman, but she is unlikely to suffer discrimination because she is white. He wouldn't be likely to suffer due to being rich and a male, but will face discrimination for being black. It isn't putting one privilege above another, just acknowledging it exists. Thanks for your answers anyway.Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:29 pmApologies. I put white supremacy but I actually meant white privilege. Totally accept your point about groups like the KKK and agree with your views on them.PoliticOs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:49 pm Thank you for the considered post. I appreciate that. And your points.
I'd suggest that the 'he deserved it' thing is due to the fact as you say, they just shouldn't have been there and their reasons behind it are questionable so it is going to be a logical conclusion for many that they are anti anti-racists.
RE: the 'no reverse racism' thing, again in the danger of sounding patronising but not attempting to; have you read much into why these people believe this? Why they believe in the UK that white people can experience racial prejudice or examples of prejudice but not racism itself? I think it definitely sounds like the sort of thing people will understandably struggle to get their heads round - but if you haven't, I'd seriously recommend it.
The case for white supremacy isn't that every white believes they are superior, so the fact that you don't identify with that doesn't really come into it. Although I'm glad you don't. I'm sure you accept there ARE white supremacists like the KKK, so is it totally unbelievable that may be on the grow?
I was speaking with someone on this today and we were discussing how the out and out racists are obviously a horrendous problem, but the bigger issue are the more subtle racists, the casual racists. The ones that don't want their daughter to have a black boyfriend, or won't hire someone with a 'funny sounding name' in case their accent is too strong, or have a ceiling in their head for the potential of black people or a manner of other microaggressions. I'd consider those things obvious examples of racism, someone else may consider it 'casual'. What we believe is and isn't casual in the UK is dated. Young people seem to be better at not accepting this and therefore the line of 'that is racist' is now being publicly drawn earlier, so I'd suggest you are absolutely hearing it more, but I'd also suggest that is just progression. Thanks for your thoughts.
One thing I will say though is regarding your point about those that don't want their daughter to have a black boyfriend.
I'm sure that there are also BAME families that would be equally against their son/daughter having a white partner.
Ignorance is bliss.Beradogs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:37 pm Poliico, you are doing a lot of asking for others to consider their views but not doing a whole lot of considering yourself. You say there is a horrendous problem with Racism. Where? I was born and bought up in East London, I ran with a gang who spent their teenage years pioneering hip hop in the uk, I played football in majority black teams for 20 years. I am married to a non white and my mother is Italian, you know, one of those dark ones. I have never in my life met a single racist or heard a single racist comment directed at anyone I know or love.I should have met hundreds of racists. Tell me you’re experience with all these racists because dare I say it, you might want to consider the company you keep. The UK is one of the most tolerant places on Earth. This is a culture war and the left need to stop trying to divide us.
It's not you disagreeing with people that is making people think you're racist.Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:07 pmI'm not an extremist by any means.Disoriented wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:21 pm Seems to be the only ‘racist’ thread unlocked.
The topic has certainly brought the extremists out of the closet.
I just challenge what I feel are the biased comments that are posted. If people feel that me disagreeing with them makes me racist then so be it. Unfortunately that seems to be the way it is nowadays.
As I said above; bothered?RedO wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:44 amIt's not you disagreeing with people that is making people think you're racist.Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:07 pmI'm not an extremist by any means.Disoriented wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:21 pm Seems to be the only ‘racist’ thread unlocked.
The topic has certainly brought the extremists out of the closet.
I just challenge what I feel are the biased comments that are posted. If people feel that me disagreeing with them makes me racist then so be it. Unfortunately that seems to be the way it is nowadays.
Ive known a number of stupid people over the years and from talking to them they didn't realise that they were stupid.ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:29 pm Ive known 4 racists, in the last 10 years ago, and when i confronted them about it, everyone of them said they were not racist.
I reckon all racists actually dont think they are racists
Not sure if its relevant, but I wanted to share that
That would suit racist right wingers like you....wouldn't itOrnchurch wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:39 pmIve known a number of stupid people over the years and from talking to them they didn't realise that they were stupid.ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:29 pm Ive known 4 racists, in the last 10 years ago, and when i confronted them about it, everyone of them said they were not racist.
I reckon all racists actually dont think they are racists
Not sure if its relevant, but I wanted to share that
Not sure if it's relevant but thought that I would share.
The sooner that people realise that others have different opinions without giving them a label the better life would be.
True, not relevant.ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:29 pm Ive known 4 racists, in the last 10 years, and when i confronted them about it, everyone of them said they were not racist.
I reckon all racists actually dont think they are racists
Not sure if its relevant, but I wanted to share that