Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Max Fowler wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:14 pm Listening to it now. Nigel is narked (understandably) at the question about what will happen to the Alzate sell-on fee - 'Will it stay in the club?'

FFS.

That’s a legitimate question from a fan. His response of ‘we’ve put loads of money in so it gives us a break from that’, didn’t actually answer anything and was a bit ambiguous. All he had to say was ‘we’ll be investing it into the club’. Just listened to it again, does he have a God complex? No one suggested they should continue to keep loading their own money into the club.

Q:
Does that 20% go straight back into yhe club and gives you 20% more to kind of invest back into the club or keep within the club

A:
I think I’m going to be honest and say we’ve invested so much money ourselves we, I think its going to stop us having to put money in for a time. I mean I’ve already put in this season - personally, millions. It’s because I love the club, cause I’m able to do it. If we can have a breather from time to time of putting more money in, I think considering what we’ve done, we’ve been very successful

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 6:53 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 6:47 pm Just re-run the podcast to find the quote for accuracy

07:55

"we'd have to do some loans out of senior transfers to recover (the budget) or even a transfer or two... but nothing is precisely planned"

And yup Happe is another one in a bit of transfer limbo as that extension did seem very temporary on both the club's part and his.

I can't think of many others that are in that territory where there would be clubs queuing up for a transfer opportunity and we could do it without hurting the squad depth, not until all the walking wounded are back fit at least.

Am I right in thinking that they are talking about this all happening by the transfer deadline happening this week, if so then will be interesting to see what happens ?

Got the impression at least some of it will this week, my guess

1 x Kelman
1 x CB
3 x academy player loans out

Senior pro movement might wait until January when a few more are back fit

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 11:08 am I usually give him the benefit of the doubt and like him but he comes across as quite argumentative and unlikeable in this. Delusional and arrogant.

Ok, listened to it.

Yep, there's a definite change in tact. It was like going back to the Barry Hearn days, telling us how much he's put in, how they saved the club, how we all need to spend more.

Really disappointing.

The realisation of L1 finances - and the genuine prospect of Championship finances in the not too distant future - has obviously given everyone bit of a wake up call.

Look on the bright side though, we could be Charlton fans!

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:22 pm

Max Fowler wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 8:14 pm Listening to it now. Nigel is narked (understandably) at the question about what will happen to the Alzate sell-on fee - 'Will it stay in the club?'

FFS.

That’s a legitimate question from a fan. His response of ‘we’ve put loads of money in so it gives us a break from that’, didn’t actually answer anything and was a bit ambiguous. All he had to say was ‘we’ll be investing it into the club’. Just listened to it again, does he have a God complex? No one suggested they should continue to keep loading their own money into the club.

Q:
Does that 20% go straight back into yhe club and gives you 20% more to kind of invest back into the club or keep within the club

A:
I think I’m going to be honest and say we’ve invested so much money ourselves we, I think its going to stop us having to put money in for a time. I mean I’ve already put in this season - personally, millions. It’s because I love the club, cause I’m able to do it. If we can have a breather from time to time of putting more money in, I think considering what we’ve done, we’ve been very successful

That question tho:

"Does that 20% go straight back into yhe club and gives you 20% more to kind of invest back into the club or keep within the club?"

The answer is either -

'Yes, it goes into the club'

or

'No, the Investors take it out of the club'.

The way it's been worded is insulting and I guess that may have something to do with how the interview went as it did after that.

I took that question as being along the lines of "will the money go into the budget as extra for the team or to cover the losses" rather than inferring anyone would take it back into their own pocket.

Travis effectively confirmed the latter which comes as no surprise given they've upped the budget to cover the early injuries.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 1:00 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 12:15 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 11:33 am
Nigel. Some of it was good as usual but his attitude was off for me. I’m sure others will see things differently. Worth a listen

Maybe Nigel should take over some of the cafes in the high street and make a fan hub in there

Said in jest but actually not a bad idea.

I’d love to give all my match day money to Orient. But reality is I want a nice coffee, a decent pint or two and something either healthy or tasty and fresh and Orient offer none of that

Nowadays money is tight, maybe if the food and drink prices were reduced more people would be able to attend a game.
A lot of people have a limited overall budget to spend.
Not everybody is minted like Nigel Travis.

gshaw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 9:20 pm I took that question as being along the lines of "will the money go into the budget as extra for the team or to cover the losses" rather than inferring anyone would take it back into their own pocket.

Travis effectively confirmed the latter which comes as no surprise given they've upped the budget to cover the early injuries.

That would have been a perfectly reasonable question - and it's kind of the question Nigel has decided to answer.

But asking if the money will still in the club, with the only alternative being it's withdrawn from the club, has got Nigel's back up and that's understandable.

If they want people in the ground at 2pm, they need to give them a reason to do just that.

Max Fowler wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 9:32 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 9:20 pm I took that question as being along the lines of "will the money go into the budget as extra for the team or to cover the losses" rather than inferring anyone would take it back into their own pocket.

Travis effectively confirmed the latter which comes as no surprise given they've upped the budget to cover the early injuries.

That would have been a perfectly reasonable question - and it's kind of the question Nigel has decided to answer.

But asking if the money will still in the club, with the only alternative being it's withdrawn from the club, has got Nigel's back up and that's understandable.

Yeah agreed I think clumsy wording hasn't helped there, we know from the Shaq Forde thread he reads the board so hopefully he'll see that side of it.

There is definitely a challenge culture scenario around improving the food and drink offer though and it'll need some creativity from Mark Devlin & team to move it to the next level

You're the millionaire CEO of a company but people aren't spending their hard-earned money on your product How do you go about improving this situation? Do you:

A) make your product more competitively priced;
B) improve your product;
C) both A) and B);
D) cry about it on a podcast and, in the middle of a cost of living crisis, accuse anyone who doesn't spend every penny of their disposable income on the substandard, overpriced crap you serve up of being some kind of traitor who wants your brand to fail?

Really dislike the sentiment of the comments about food/drink for a number of reasons, some already covered above but mainly they just come across as being really tone deaf. He can't moan about the Council not recognising how much money we bring into the area in the same breath as whingeing about fans spending money locally on a matchday. Clearly wants it both ways. Also, the area around the ground has, in the last 10-15 years, seen an incredible improvement in the food and drink options available. If the Club haven't kept up and people are going elsewhere, maybe they should do something about it beyond guilt tripping people.

These businesses are our neighbours, we're supposed to be part of a local community, branding ourselves as a community club. This isn't acting like it.

So I asked an AI image generator to create a picture of Nigel reading this thread and somehow ended up with Simon the photographer instead

gshaw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 11:25 am

PKM wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 11:09 am Yes, main point is Championship by 5 years
We love RW
We want to stay in Waltham Forest, meeting council next month
Why can’t we have the hockey ground
New training facilities, found somewhere but early days
Nigel has bunged in millions , and that’s just this season
Expect more players in this week and possibly some out
Cambridge, we were fantastic
There you go.

Good to see we're showing interest in the Hockey ground again. Hearn got so caught up in the main Olympic Stadium he missed an opportunity with the one that was more suited for us.

Suspected there may be some going out the door as well as coming in, perhaps a reason why Embleton was there on Saturday?

TBH, I think there's little to no chance of us ever moving to the site of the Hockey Stadium .

Max Fowler wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 9:36 pm If they want people in the ground at 2pm, they need to give them a reason to do just that.

Agreed.

Travis quoted the following numbers (roughly) as being in the ground
2pm 850
2.15 1400
2.30 2500
2.45 4400

I'm a south stand regular and of the 2pm visitors I'd say we make a reasonable slice of that 850. Thats because its a decent place to have a pint and watch the last half hour of the lunchtime game. With the excecption of the gallery, the same cannot be said. I think the west stand facilities for the standard seats are poor and I have no experience of the North or East stands - but it won't be great. Local pubs have improved significantly and we have to do so again in order to up those numbers that spend in the ground.

I know they won't have the numbers, but I reckon they have taken a financial step backwards with the west stand bar takings after the game. Once you are out of the ground you are out out. No sense in walking round to the south IMO. You've become detached the moment you are out of the ground.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:46 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:25 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:09 pm

Well that is an interesting point and wonder who ( If anyone ) will be going out on loan or leaving the club completely, especially if it is..... '' a senior pro'' ?

Looking at the squad the only ones who aren't injured that you could take away and not have a major effect on selection might be

Sotiriou (given another attacking player coming in and Galbraith now available)
Sweeney / Hunt (pick one)
Byrne / Howes (pick one)

If you have to pick one to sell Sotiriou in last year of contract could net some cash for a L2 club looking for a promotion push perhaps. Sweeney too though be surprised if we sell someone who just got a new contract.

I would hardly class Ruel as a senior pro, he is fit and an ever present in the side and so far our top goal scorer and RW likes him, so little to no chance of that happening . By the way....you really have got a thing about Ruel haven't you !
Well hardly likely to be Pratley, Thompson is injured ( yet again ) so highly unlikely that he can be off loaded....a long shot...Beckles ?

Moncur, Hunt??

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 10:20 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:46 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:25 pm

Looking at the squad the only ones who aren't injured that you could take away and not have a major effect on selection might be

Sotiriou (given another attacking player coming in and Galbraith now available)
Sweeney / Hunt (pick one)
Byrne / Howes (pick one)

If you have to pick one to sell Sotiriou in last year of contract could net some cash for a L2 club looking for a promotion push perhaps. Sweeney too though be surprised if we sell someone who just got a new contract.

I would hardly class Ruel as a senior pro, he is fit and an ever present in the side and so far our top goal scorer and RW likes him, so little to no chance of that happening . By the way....you really have got a thing about Ruel haven't you !
Well hardly likely to be Pratley, Thompson is injured ( yet again ) so highly unlikely that he can be off loaded....a long shot...Beckles ?

Moncur, Hunt??

Would leave us short of CAM without Moncur, can't see that happening. One of Hunt or Sweeney on loan with a recall clause... maybe if a CB comes in who can cover a fullback slot as well. Think Ogie mould but... better

Thought it was a great interview. Can’t criticise too many of the comments here either. Certainly a speedy way of seeking feedback.

The interview with NT was informative and interesting, particularly his comments about possible redevelopment of the East stand (£25,000,000.00) with more funds becoming available from the restructuring of the EFL. If we could add another 3,000 seats to Brisbane Road then why move? We are NOT a Premiership Club and I hope we never will be. In my humble opinion the way that dubious outfit is run is living on borrowed time. When loans etc are called in from the likes of Man United etc how would such repayments be financed? Sale of players or the stadium, and should football attendances fall back to those levels of the 1970/80’s these mega stadiums will be half empty.

It is not really our business how sell on contracts for players are negotiated and where any ‘profit’ might go. If the directors do see some return on their investment is that such a bad thing? Indeed it may well encourage them to make further investments in the hope that there could even be a ‘return’ on their cash.

We have made huge progress since that awful Italian owner nearly succeeded in bankrupting the club. Things may not be perfect, and hopefully concerns about quality and cost of pre match food and refreshments will be quickly addressed, but we have a brilliant manager, a board and owners that genuinely care about the club and fantastic fans.

Saturdays game was one of the best I have ever seen at Brisbane Road, the atmosphere was fantastic and even a four hour drive home after the match in awful traffic did not spoil a wonderful day in E10.

Winchestorfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 11:10 pm
It is not really our business how sell on contracts for players are negotiated and where any ‘profit’ might go. If the directors do see some return on their investment is that such a bad thing? Indeed it may well encourage them to make further investments in the hope that there could even be a ‘return’ on their cash.

It does become our business when we're being told we're cheating the club by going to the Coach and Horses pre-match instead of spending money in the ground.

LittleMate wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 10:18 pm I think the west stand facilities for the standard seats are poor and I have no experience of the North or East stands -

They are both awful.

Max Fowler wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 11:20 pm

Winchestorfan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 11:10 pm
It is not really our business how sell on contracts for players are negotiated and where any ‘profit’ might go. If the directors do see some return on their investment is that such a bad thing? Indeed it may well encourage them to make further investments in the hope that there could even be a ‘return’ on their cash.

It does become our business when we're being told we're cheating the club by going to the Coach and Horses pre-match instead of spending money in the ground.

The only time Nigel said fans were cheating the club was with respect to illegal streaming, not regards eating elsewhere. I accept he did say that eating elsewhere was taking revenue away from the club, which could have been better worded. Ironically the supporters club is always bursting at the seams making revenue, and would almost certainly make more if it was bigger, or had catering. That said, it probably wouldn't be in the clubs best interest if the supporters club was bigger reducing early attendance further.

I think Nigel Travis is an honourable man, who has the best interest of LOFC at heart, but he's really tin-eared on this.

It's always been the case that football clubs rely upon supporters quietly ignoring the concept of "value for money". Even before this year's extraordinary price-hikes, the Hospitality offering was priced well beyond its value. I don't denigrate Lucy and her team, they did (and surely still do) a great job and make you feel welcome, well-fed, and well-watered, but the price we paid, even last year, was way in excess of what you'd pay for the food on the plate. We still paid it, we were lucky enough to be able to afford it, and reasoned that it was worth it as we were in some way contributing to the well-being of the Club.

But you can only dip your bucket in the same well so many times - eventually, fans start to feel like they're being taken for mugs. As others have said on here, give us a product and a reason (other than blind loyalty to LOFC) to come early and stay late, and fans will. Personally, I'm astounded at the price increase on Matchday Hospitality, and will have to think twice about whether I can justify it on my visits - I think I'm more likely to arrange a meal elsewhere rather than be taken for a mug - which is how the offering feels at the moment.

Of course the Club wants to capitalise on matchday - of course they'd prefer it if profits from matchday food and drink went towards the running of the club - but you have to do it by properly out-competing the local business - not by suggesting that we're something less than loyal if we choose to eat and drink elsewhere.

Brand loyalty is great - but it has to be earned, nurtured, and never just taken for granted. I'm very surprised the Nigel doesn't realise this, with his track-record. I hope he's learning from the pushback and acts upon it.

I get that Travis has ruffled a few feathers today but I think that a lot of this criticism should be aimed at the CEO - Its his responsibility to out source the catering and he is obviously advising Travis on what he feels the going rate is for Food and Drink and matchday dining. Think there was a warning 18 months ago when Devlin made a veiled criticism of Danny Macklin saying the naming rights for the ground were previously sold too cheaply, well here we are 18 months later with absolutely no income from naming rights (a major source of income) because he and the company he paid to help him find suitable "partners" can't find a company to pay what he feels is the going rate. As I wrote elsewhere earlier I don't know Mr Devlin but I'm far from impressed - he's pricing out a lot of the fanbase at the turnstiles and kiosks and the only tangible "improvement" I see is the second hand electronic perimeter advertising boards. Rather than bringing in new revenue streams all I see is LOFC trying to milk the existing revenue streams and customers.

Bit odd to blame Devlin for something someone else has said.