Page 3 of 6
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:54 am
by Long slender neck
How about adult STs arent discounted and no reserved seating in the north? That way it is easy to bring your child along as and when they can attend.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:12 am
by spen666
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:54 am
How about adult STs arent discounted and no reserved seating in the north? That way it is easy to bring your child along as and when they can attend.
1. Cost for families to go will be too much, as not just paying for an adult, but children, pester purchases like food, drink, club shop etc and result in families not going - loss of immediate income and loss of future generations who will not grow up going to watch Orient
[Incidentally, many non league clubs let accompanied children in free or for £1, because they know they will make up for it on food and drink for kids and beer sales for adults accompanying kids]
2.No reserved seats? Great, turn up with your family and find no seats available together. Or people constantly moving seats during game trying to find better location. People like to sit in "their" seats every game and do not generally like moving seats each game. You get used to view from your seat.
PS I have no vested interest as my child has a season ticket nearly 300 miles away, and is well over the Orient age limit for being a child anyway
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:14 am
by Max Fowler
spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:47 am
TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:12 am
You're all making this more complicated than it needs to be.
Do away with the heavily reduced adult ST in the North and you won't have people buying these kids STs needlessly.
How do you encourage families to come to games where families cannot afford full priced adult tickets as well as child tickets and all the pester purchases for kids like food / drink/ clubshop etc
If it appears expensive to get in ground, families will not attend and that is going to lose the club current income and more significantly future fans
Perhaps the solution is for families to prove existence of their children, by sending them in post to the ticket office, along with a stamped addressed envelope so the child can be returned once its existence has been validated. Postal applications only. Obviously welfare of children is at parent's risk
For the more right wing of you, we could have half time entertainment, with any adult found in North Stand that day without their child being summarily executed on the pitch
A win win situation, they offenders won't re-offend, and fans will get half time entertainment
I believe the club have previously stated the reason the adult price is discounted is for that reason, to encourage whole families, both parents/carers to come along.
That isn't what is happening though. There are only a very few families that attend. The North is full of groups of blokes - some very old - with no kids, possibly one kid, between them.
The system is being abused. The best way to combat it is to remove the cheap adult ST price. (And I'm saying this as a current beneficiary).
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:21 am
by Max Fowler
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:54 am
How about adult STs arent discounted and no reserved seating in the north? That way it is easy to bring your child along as and when they can attend.
The games young kids don't attend will be, in the main, Tuesday night games that aren't sold out anyway.
The problem is with kids STs purchased just to access the reduced price adult ST, where the child literally never attends nor has any intention of doing so.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:22 am
by Max Fowler
The idea of unreserved seating is interesting though.
Encourages people to get in to the ground early to pick a seat and forces them to spend money as well.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:23 am
by Long slender neck
spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:12 am
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:54 am
How about adult STs arent discounted and no reserved seating in the north? That way it is easy to bring your child along as and when they can attend.
1. Cost for families to go will be too much, as not just paying for an adult, but children, pester purchases like food, drink, club shop etc and result in families not going - loss of immediate income and loss of future generations who will not grow up going to watch Orient
[Incidentally, many non league clubs let accompanied children in free or for £1, because they know they will make up for it on food and drink for kids and beer sales for adults accompanying kids]
2.No reserved seats? Great, turn up with your family and find no seats available together. Or people constantly moving seats during game trying to find better location. People like to sit in "their" seats every game and do not generally like moving seats each game. You get used to view from your seat.
PS I have no vested interest as my child has a season ticket nearly 300 miles away, and is well over the Orient age limit for being a child anyway
The kids tickets could still be cheap, making it affordable for families.
You'd have to get there early of course to get the seat you want.
This seems to me a better option than lots of empty ghost kid seats game after game.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:25 am
by Holybourne Identity
I agree that the North Stand problem is persons without kids/occasional kids using it as a way of getting cheaper tickets. It happens at other clubs - I was in the Family Section at Newcastle last season and I doubt 10% of those present were under 18.
However, kids have no income themselves and their tickets need to be the cheapest, otherwise they wont be coming now or for the next 70 years.
The ticket exchange should be more attractive - I'd say prorata the cost of the Season Ticket so if its a £399 season ticket a person using the ticket exchange gets £17.34 back if the seat is sold (the club will be selling for say £24).
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:26 am
by spen666
TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:14 am
spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:47 am
TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:12 am
You're all making this more complicated than it needs to be.
Do away with the heavily reduced adult ST in the North and you won't have people buying these kids STs needlessly.
How do you encourage families to come to games where families cannot afford full priced adult tickets as well as child tickets and all the pester purchases for kids like food / drink/ clubshop etc
If it appears expensive to get in ground, families will not attend and that is going to lose the club current income and more significantly future fans
Perhaps the solution is for families to prove existence of their children, by sending them in post to the ticket office, along with a stamped addressed envelope so the child can be returned once its existence has been validated. Postal applications only. Obviously welfare of children is at parent's risk
For the more right wing of you, we could have half time entertainment, with any adult found in North Stand that day without their child being summarily executed on the pitch
A win win situation, they offenders won't re-offend, and fans will get half time entertainment
I believe the club have previously stated the reason the adult price is discounted is for that reason, to encourage whole families, both parents/carers to come along.
Agreed
That isn't what is happening though. There are only a very few families that attend. The North is full of groups of blokes - some very old - with no kids, possibly one kid, between them.
Agreed
The system is being abused. The best way to combat it is to remove the cheap adult ST price. (And I'm saying this as a current beneficiary).
This then means that families are priced out, as per your first response .
Something needs to be done, but I am not convinced your solution is the one. It has potential very serious long term consequences that will be to the serious detriment of the club.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:32 am
by Long slender neck
There must be a way to structure the pricing fairly.
For instance currently a kids ST is £100 (may have been a £50 limited offer IIRC)
£100 / 23 home games = £4.34 per game
Just price kids single tickets similarly. £5 would be fair considering price rises are planned anyway. Total cost is £115 if a child attended all 23 home games, which is unlikely, so most would actually make a saving on last years full price child ST.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:43 am
by Max Fowler
spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:26 am
This then means that families are priced out, as per your first response .
Something needs to be done, but I am not convinced your solution is the one. It has potential very serious long term consequences that will be to the serious detriment of the club.
Of course I get the importance of securing our future fanbase which is why I'm advocating for the reduced kids STs to remain. Most of the fans I know are only there because they were dragged along as kids.
'Families' do not currently attend with the existing pricing structure. The club will have the full stats but from what I see in the North, there are hardly any mum + dad + 2.4 kids. I repeat, it is groups of blokes, sometimes with a kid in tow, mostly without.
I've no issue if the club want to provide a true 'family ST' but again, you'd have people abusing that.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:46 am
by Max Fowler
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:32 am
There must be a way to structure the pricing fairly.
For instance currently a kids ST is £100 (may have been a £50 limited offer IIRC)
£100 / 23 home games = £4.34 per game
Just price kids single tickets similarly. £5 would be fair considering price rises are planned anyway. Total cost is £115 if a child attended all 23 home games, which is unlikely, so most would actually make a saving on last years full price child ST.
A group of guys will buy a £100 kids ST between them, never use it, so that they can all save £125 plus off their adult ST.
Do you still not get the issue?
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:50 am
by Top of the JES
Kids season ticket applications should have birth certificate and/or passport verification to prove age. Maybe the club could get stewards to check whose is the the seats occasionally before the game start. the club has all the data be easy to check.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:54 am
by Long slender neck
TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:46 am
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:32 am
There must be a way to structure the pricing fairly.
For instance currently a kids ST is £100 (may have been a £50 limited offer IIRC)
£100 / 23 home games = £4.34 per game
Just price kids single tickets similarly. £5 would be fair considering price rises are planned anyway. Total cost is £115 if a child attended all 23 home games, which is unlikely, so most would actually make a saving on last years full price child ST.
A group of guys will buy a £100 kids ST between them, never use it, so that they can all save £125 plus off their adult ST.
Do you still not get the issue?
I understand that and agree the adult discount needs to end or be drastically reduced. Do you have a record of what the ST pricing was for this season?
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:55 am
by Max Fowler
Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:50 am
Kids season ticket applications should have birth certificate and/or passport verification to prove age. Maybe the club could get stewards to check whose is the the seats occasionally before the game start. the club has all the data be easy to check.
The kids exist. They just don't attend. The kids ST has been purchased just to allow the adults to access the cheap adult ST prices.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:55 am
by tuffers#1
TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:46 am
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:32 am
There must be a way to structure the pricing fairly.
For instance currently a kids ST is £100 (may have been a £50 limited offer IIRC)
£100 / 23 home games = £4.34 per game
Just price kids single tickets similarly. £5 would be fair considering price rises are planned anyway. Total cost is £115 if a child attended all 23 home games, which is unlikely, so most would actually make a saving on last years full price child ST.
A group of guys will buy a £100 kids ST between them, never use it, so that they can all save £125 plus off their adult ST.
Do you still not get the issue?
How do " a group of guys " share a ghost kid to save £ 125 Each ? What Numpty allowed 5 dads of the same kid to get £ 125 off ?
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:34 am
by spen666
tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:55 am
TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:46 am
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:32 am
There must be a way to structure the pricing fairly.
For instance currently a kids ST is £100 (may have been a £50 limited offer IIRC)
£100 / 23 home games = £4.34 per game
Just price kids single tickets similarly. £5 would be fair considering price rises are planned anyway. Total cost is £115 if a child attended all 23 home games, which is unlikely, so most would actually make a saving on last years full price child ST.
A group of guys will buy a £100 kids ST between them, never use it, so that they can all save £125 plus off their adult ST.
Do you still not get the issue?
...? What Numpty allowed 5 dads of the same kid to get £ 125 off ?
You can't say "parents / carers" have to be male & female. That would be illegal under discrimination legislation.
Perhaps you could limit it to 2 "Adults" per child and ensure the price of a season ticket for 2 adults and a child is not less than for two adults in another stand - problem with this is that other 3 stands vary in price. If you match it to West Stand, then North Stand becomes stupidly expensive for worst facilities/ view. Price match to South Stand
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:49 am
by Max Fowler
It's not restricted to parent or carer - it's family. So grandparents, uncles, cousins etc are all getting in on it.
You're still all over thinking it.
Increase the price of adult ST, children ST prices remain as are to ensure future fans are being brainwashed, problem goes away.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:50 am
by spen666
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:39 am
But you're still getting an adult free that way. It should work out that the child ticket is cheap.
How are you getting an adult free?
If child ticket is too cheap, then you have the problem we have now. Somehow the financial incentive to register ghost children needs to be removed without putting off families
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:52 am
by spen666
TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:49 am
It's not restricted to parent or carer - it's family. So grandparents, uncles, cousins etc are all getting in on it.
You're still all over thinking it.
Increase the price of adult ST, children ST prices remain as are to ensure future fans are being brainwashed, problem goes away.
You are now pricing families out - as you yourself acknowledged clubs do discounts to attract families.
if others are over thinking it, you are under thinking it and going to harm the long term future of the club by losing them future fans
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:53 am
by Max Fowler
spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:50 am
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:39 am
But you're still getting an adult free that way. It should work out that the child ticket is cheap.
How are you getting an adult free?
If child ticket is too cheap, then you have the problem we have now. Somehow the financial incentive to register ghost children needs to be removed without putting off families
There are minimal families that will be impacted by this.
There are lots of groups of blokes who will no longer be able to get away with buying cheap season tickets.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:53 am
by Max Fowler
spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:52 am
You are now pricing families out - as you yourself acknowledged clubs do discounts to attract families.
if others are over thinking it, you are under thinking it and going to harm the long term future of the club by losing them future fans
There are bugger all families currently attending FFS! You're creating an issue that doesn't exist.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:13 pm
by Long slender neck
spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:52 am
TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:49 am
It's not restricted to parent or carer - it's family. So grandparents, uncles, cousins etc are all getting in on it.
You're still all over thinking it.
Increase the price of adult ST, children ST prices remain as are to ensure future fans are being brainwashed, problem goes away.
You are now pricing families out - as you yourself acknowledged clubs do discounts to attract families.
if others are over thinking it, you are under thinking it and going to harm the long term future of the club by losing them future fans
discounted CHILD tickets are the right way to attract families.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:14 pm
by Long slender neck
spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:50 am
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:39 am
But you're still getting an adult free that way. It should work out that the child ticket is cheap.
How are you getting an adult free?
If child ticket is too cheap, then you have the problem we have now. Somehow the financial incentive to register ghost children needs to be removed without putting off families
Looks like I read your post wrong, apologies.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:21 pm
by Max Fowler
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:13 pm
spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:52 am
TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:49 am
It's not restricted to parent or carer - it's family. So grandparents, uncles, cousins etc are all getting in on it.
You're still all over thinking it.
Increase the price of adult ST, children ST prices remain as are to ensure future fans are being brainwashed, problem goes away.
You are now pricing families out - as you yourself acknowledged clubs do discounts to attract families.
if others are over thinking it, you are under thinking it and going to harm the long term future of the club by losing them future fans
discounted CHILD tickets are the right way to attract families.
Exactly.
We don't need to attract families, as such.
We need to attract the kids of existing fans.
Re: How can ticketing be improved next season?
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:22 pm
by spen666
TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:21 pm
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:13 pm
spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:52 am
You are now pricing families out - as you yourself acknowledged clubs do discounts to attract families.
if others are over thinking it, you are under thinking it and going to harm the long term future of the club by losing them future fans
discounted CHILD tickets are the right way to attract families.
Exactly.
We don't need to attract families, as such.
We need to attract the kids of existing fans.
Kids with their parents or guardians? Some people know such groups as families
Orient need to attract new fans, not just children of existing fans Only looking to attract children of existing fans is a way to cause club to die over time.