To Serve and Protect

[Dunners]

Oh dear. Latest lie incoming.

[Friend or faux]

South Wales Police almost as bad as the Met. Cardiff 3 X 2 ( 2 separate cases of the wrong geezers being set-up & wrongfully convicted ). Pembroke murders & rapes. John Cooper had the local Ole Bill in his pocket while he went on murder & rape sprees, took 'em 17 years to get him banged up. My ole late Granpa was fitted up by the South Wales Ole Bill in 1921. He had been at home & they called for him, asking to help them soothe angry miners in 1921 lock out. They ended up charging him with intimidation & he got 3 months with hard labour for his troubles. Just been on TV the Steeltown Murders, so busy trying to fit up one geezer wrongfully, they didn't realise they had a serial killer & thug on the loose.

[Proposition Joe]

Police stop lying challenge.

[spen666]

South Wales Police almost as bad as the Met. Cardiff 3 X 2 ( 2 separate cases of the wrong geezers being set-up & wrongfully convicted ). Pembroke murders & rapes. John Cooper had the local Ole Bill in his pocket while he went on murder & rape sprees, took 'em 17 years to get him banged up......

The Pembroke murders case had nothing to do with South Wales Police

It was a completely separate legal entity - Dyfed Powys Police who dealt with that case.

Why did Dyfed Powys Police deal with that case? Probably because it occurred in Dyfed Powys and not in the South Wales Police Force area

[Max B Gold]

South Wales Police almost as bad as the Met. Cardiff 3 X 2 ( 2 separate cases of the wrong geezers being set-up & wrongfully convicted ). Pembroke murders & rapes. John Cooper had the local Ole Bill in his pocket while he went on murder & rape sprees, took 'em 17 years to get him banged up......

The Pembroke murders case had nothing to do with South Wales Police

It was a completely separate legal entity - Dyfed Powys Police who dealt with that case.

Why did Dyfed Powys Police deal with that case? Probably because it occurred in Dyfed Powys and not in the South Wales Police Force area

This post has been referred to MB Verify an offshoot of the anti disinformation BBC Verify team. We will get back to you shortly.

[Max B Gold]

It's spread to Australia now, except they are focusing on terminating 95 year old women.


https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -care-home

[tuffers#1]

It's spread to Australia now, except they are focusing on terminating 95 year old women.


https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -care-home

There doing that here , but alledgedly under the cover of escorting Royals around London .

[Long slender neck]

Met to stop responding to mental health calls in the summer.

Read a shocking stat that in one month only 30% of calls received were crime related.

[The Mindsweep]

At the moment there is no other opinion when someone is having mental health issues, that are a danger to themselves or others, than to call the police. Then the police have nowhere to take the person for safety other than the police station. It shouldn't be a police matter but the system is broken, there are no places to take people who need help.

The current system is cruel, ridiculous and doesn't help, but unbelievably by taking the police out of it will make it worse.

Ideally there should be trained people who could take people to specialist mental health centres to be assessed. That will never happen until the government design a profit margin for their friends to get involved.

[tuffers#1]

At the moment there is no other opinion when someone is having mental health issues, that are a danger to themselves or others, than to call the police. Then the police have nowhere to take the person for safety other than the police station. It shouldn't be a police matter but the system is broken, there are no places to take people who need help.

The current system is cruel, ridiculous and doesn't help, but unbelievably by taking the police out of it will make it worse.

Ideally there should be trained people who could take people to specialist mental health centres to be assessed. That will never happen until the government design a profit margin for their friends to get involved.

I thought they used to bring them to Hospitals , what changed ?

[The Mindsweep]

At the moment there is no other opinion when someone is having mental health issues, that are a danger to themselves or others, than to call the police. Then the police have nowhere to take the person for safety other than the police station. It shouldn't be a police matter but the system is broken, there are no places to take people who need help.

The current system is cruel, ridiculous and doesn't help, but unbelievably by taking the police out of it will make it worse.

Ideally there should be trained people who could take people to specialist mental health centres to be assessed. That will never happen until the government design a profit margin for their friends to get involved.

I thought they used to bring them to Hospitals , what changed ?

Where at the hospital would they go? There are no facilities there. There are no facilities anywhere.

[CEB]

“Taking the police out of it will make it worse”

Agree with this completely. It’s not ideal but it’s where we are (and is why the witless “defund the police” tales are so witless)

[tuffers#1]

At the moment there is no other opinion when someone is having mental health issues, that are a danger to themselves or others, than to call the police. Then the police have nowhere to take the person for safety other than the police station. It shouldn't be a police matter but the system is broken, there are no places to take people who need help.

The current system is cruel, ridiculous and doesn't help, but unbelievably by taking the police out of it will make it worse.

Ideally there should be trained people who could take people to specialist mental health centres to be assessed. That will never happen until the government design a profit margin for their friends to get involved.

I thought they used to bring them to Hospitals , what changed ?

Where at the hospital would they go? There are no facilities there. There are no facilities anywhere.

They used (10 years ago) would be taken to Hospital & then on to psychiatric units. I suppose what i put in brackets explains it though .

[spen666]

.....

They used (10 years ago) would be taken to Hospital & then on to psychiatric units. I suppose what i put in brackets explains it though .

Hospitals are very reluctant to use their powers to section someone and deny them of their liberty these days.

The denying someone their liberty is a serious step and there have been numerous legal challenges brought subsequently by people who argue they were wrongly sectioned. Thus hospitals are reluctant to section people because of the risk of being sued and incurring large legal bills

Sad state of affairs we are in

[The Mindsweep]

I thought they used to bring them to Hospitals , what changed ?

Where at the hospital would they go? There are no facilities there. There are no facilities anywhere.

They used (10 years ago) would be taken to Hospital & then on to psychiatric units. I suppose what i put in brackets explains it though .

For the most urgent cases, possibly, mental health issues are wide and varied just like physical ones. All that's needed for most cases is there to be a place of safety to go to, it may only be for a few hours. The current system just upscales mental heath issues and creates further problems at the time and in the future.

[tuffers#1]

.....

They used (10 years ago) would be taken to Hospital & then on to psychiatric units. I suppose what i put in brackets explains it though .

Hospitals are very reluctant to use their powers to section someone and deny them of their liberty these days.

The denying someone their liberty is a serious step and there have been numerous legal challenges brought subsequently by people who argue they were wrongly sectioned. Thus hospitals are reluctant to section people because of the risk of being sued and incurring large legal bills

Sad state of affairs we are in

Are Governments not able to protect Hospitals from this ? A Genuine question & not a wum .

[The Mindsweep]

.....

They used (10 years ago) would be taken to Hospital & then on to psychiatric units. I suppose what i put in brackets explains it though .

Hospitals are very reluctant to use their powers to section someone and deny them of their liberty these days.

The denying someone their liberty is a serious step and there have been numerous legal challenges brought subsequently by people who argue they were wrongly sectioned. Thus hospitals are reluctant to section people because of the risk of being sued and incurring large legal bills

Sad state of affairs we are in

There is also very little room in places for those that need it, they just send people back home and it begins again

[The Mindsweep]

“Taking the police out of it will make it worse”

Agree with this completely. It’s not ideal but it’s where we are (and is why the witless “defund the police” tales are so witless)

The police do their best, but they are law enforcement, not mental health officers. Just like Doctors & Nurses, the Police are the ones that are tasked with mopping up the results of government policy that is not fit for purpose

[spen666]

.....

They used (10 years ago) would be taken to Hospital & then on to psychiatric units. I suppose what i put in brackets explains it though .

Hospitals are very reluctant to use their powers to section someone and deny them of their liberty these days.

The denying someone their liberty is a serious step and there have been numerous legal challenges brought subsequently by people who argue they were wrongly sectioned. Thus hospitals are reluctant to section people because of the risk of being sued and incurring large legal bills

Sad state of affairs we are in

Are Governments not able to protect Hospitals from this ? A Genuine question & not a wum .

Yes if you want to give power to the authorities to lock people up without recourse to protection....bit like the powers they have in North Korea.

You are effectively saying anyone can be detained at anytime for howsoever long the authorities want without right to legal redress...

Probably a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights



how would you feel if the authorities just randomly kept locking you in a secure unit, denying you your liberty and you could do nothing about it?

There has to be rights of redress when such drastic punitive powers are given to the state


ECHR Articles 7 & 8 are rather relevant

ARTICLE 7
No punishment without law
1. No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on
account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal
offence under national or international law at the time when it
was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than
the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was
committed.
2. This Article shall not prejudice the trial and punishment of
any person for any act or omission which, at the time when it was
committed, was criminal according to the general principles of
law recognised by civilised nations.
ARTICLE 8
Right to respect for private and family life
1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family
life, his home and his correspondence.
2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the
exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the
law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of
national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the
country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection
of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms
of others



Article 14 may be a problem as well

ARTICLE 13
Right to an effective remedy
Everyone whose rights and freedoms as set forth in this Convention
are violated shall have an effective remedy before a national
authority notwithstanding that the violation has been committed
by persons acting in an official capacity


and then of course there is pesky article 5 that completely outlaws what you are suggesting. Damn if only Britain hadn't drafted such a convention and persuaded the rest of Europe to sign up to it ( That is Europe, not the EU, EEA or EC)

ARTICLE 5
Right to liberty and security
1. Everyone has the right to liberty and security of person. No
one shall be deprived of his liberty save in the following cases and
in accordance with a procedure prescribed by law:
(a) the lawful detention of a person after conviction by a
competent court;
(b) the lawful arrest or detention of a person for noncompliance with the lawful order of a court or in order to
secure the fulfilment of any obligation prescribed by law;
(c) the lawful arrest or detention of a person effected for
the purpose of bringing him before the competent legal
authority on reasonable suspicion of having committed
an offence or when it is reasonably considered necessary
to prevent his committing an offence or fleeing after
having done so;
(d) the detention of a minor by lawful order for the purpose
of educational supervision or his lawful detention for
the purpose of bringing him before the competent legal
authority;
(e) the lawful detention of persons for the prevention of the
spreading of infectious diseases, of persons of unsound
mind, alcoholics or drug addicts or vagrants;
(f) the lawful arrest or detention of a person to prevent his
effecting an unauthorised entry into the country or of a
person against whom action is being taken with a view
to deportation or extradition.
2. Everyone who is arrested shall be informed promptly, in a
language which he understands, of the reasons for his arrest and
of any charge against him.
3. Everyone arrested or detained in accordance with the
provisions of paragraph 1 (c) of this Article shall be brought
promptly before a judge or other officer authorised by law to
exercise judicial power and shall be entitled to trial within a
reasonable time or to release pending trial. Release may be
conditioned by guarantees to appear for trial.
4. Everyone who is deprived of his liberty by arrest or detention
shall be entitled to take proceedings by which the lawfulness of
his detention shall be decided speedily by a court and his release
ordered if the detention is not lawful.
5. Everyone who has been the victim of arrest or detention
in contravention of the provisions of this Article shall have an
enforceable right to compensation.

[tuffers#1]

Hospitals are very reluctant to use their powers to section someone and deny them of their liberty these days.

The denying someone their liberty is a serious step and there have been numerous legal challenges brought subsequently by people who argue they were wrongly sectioned. Thus hospitals are reluctant to section people because of the risk of being sued and incurring large legal bills

Sad state of affairs we are in

Are Governments not able to protect Hospitals from this ? A Genuine question & not a wum .

Yes if you want to give power to the authorities to lock people up without recourse to protection....bit like the powers they have in North Korea.

You are effectively saying anyone can be detained at anytime for howsoever long the authorities want without right to legal redress...

Probably a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights



how would you feel if the authorities just randomly kept locking you in a secure unit, denying you your liberty and you could do nothing about it?

There has to be rights of redress when such drastic punitive powers are given to the state


ECHR Articles 7 & 8 are rather relevant

ARTICLE 7
No punishment without law
1. No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on
account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal
offence under national or international law at the time when it
was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than
the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was
committed.
2. This Article shall not prejudice the trial and punishment of
any person for any act or omission which, at the time when it was
committed, was criminal according to the general principles of
law recognised by civilised nations.
ARTICLE 8
Right to respect for private and family life
1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family
life, his home and his correspondence.
2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the
exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the
law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of
national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the
country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection
of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms
of others



Article 14 may be a problem as well

ARTICLE 13
Right to an effective remedy
Everyone whose rights and freedoms as set forth in this Convention
are violated shall have an effective remedy before a national
authority notwithstanding that the violation has been committed
by persons acting in an official capacity


and then of course there is pesky article 5 that completely outlaws what you are suggesting. Damn if only Britain hadn't drafted such a convention and persuaded the rest of Europe to sign up to it ( That is Europe, not the EU, EEA or EC)

ARTICLE 5
Right to liberty and security
1. Everyone has the right to liberty and security of person. No
one shall be deprived of his liberty save in the following cases and
in accordance with a procedure prescribed by law:
(a) the lawful detention of a person after conviction by a
competent court;
(b) the lawful arrest or detention of a person for noncompliance with the lawful order of a court or in order to
secure the fulfilment of any obligation prescribed by law;
(c) the lawful arrest or detention of a person effected for
the purpose of bringing him before the competent legal
authority on reasonable suspicion of having committed
an offence or when it is reasonably considered necessary
to prevent his committing an offence or fleeing after
having done so;
(d) the detention of a minor by lawful order for the purpose
of educational supervision or his lawful detention for
the purpose of bringing him before the competent legal
authority;
(e) the lawful detention of persons for the prevention of the
spreading of infectious diseases, of persons of unsound
mind, alcoholics or drug addicts or vagrants;
(f) the lawful arrest or detention of a person to prevent his
effecting an unauthorised entry into the country or of a
person against whom action is being taken with a view
to deportation or extradition.
2. Everyone who is arrested shall be informed promptly, in a
language which he understands, of the reasons for his arrest and
of any charge against him.
3. Everyone arrested or detained in accordance with the
provisions of paragraph 1 (c) of this Article shall be brought
promptly before a judge or other officer authorised by law to
exercise judicial power and shall be entitled to trial within a
reasonable time or to release pending trial. Release may be
conditioned by guarantees to appear for trial.
4. Everyone who is deprived of his liberty by arrest or detention
shall be entitled to take proceedings by which the lawfulness of
his detention shall be decided speedily by a court and his release
ordered if the detention is not lawful.
5. Everyone who has been the victim of arrest or detention
in contravention of the provisions of this Article shall have an
enforceable right to compensation.

Yeah that makes sence as you mentioned earlier hospital always escalates ,Mental Health. I was unsure if every case is escalated , but the sorry state we all know we are in kind of compounds things more .

[Long slender neck]

Things wont change until the Police stop doing a job which other more qualified people should be doing though.

[tuffers#1]

Or a government starts funding All health issues properly .

[Dunners]

"Five former Metropolitan police officers have pleaded guilty at Westminster magistrates court to sending grossly offensive racist messages on WhatsApp, including about the Duchess of Sussex."

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/07 ... p-messages

[Proposition Joe]

Convicted Met rapist sentenced:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... r-old-girl

Serving Met officer charged with 6 rapes:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/ ... es-356520/

[Eggski]

Read a great book called Bent Coppers, it just goes to show how corrupt the police were and still are....