Independent Leyton Orient Forum

roffeys money wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 4:42 pm So many people jealous of the USA on here, hilarious.

Fair play though Bill, that defeat in 1776 was hard to stomach.

roffeys money wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 4:42 pm So many people jealous of the USA on here, hilarious.

Jealous?

I wish we g swerved them altogether and didn’t get dragged into their war-mongering.

BoniO wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 4:54 pm

roffeys money wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 4:42 pm So many people jealous of the USA on here, hilarious.

Think you've spectacularly missed the point here. Do you really believe the US hasn't interfered in the internal politics of many South American countries and caused countless deaths by doing so?

And not just South American​countries either.. . Remember the Yanks supported Saddam Hussein, they virtually put him in power, till it suited them to remove him, they started a war against Iraq that caused almost a million deaths, most of them children, they are in Ukraine right in Putin's doorstep, and of course they are keeping the fascist government in power in Israel
America is a murderous vile country

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 6:45 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 4:54 pm

roffeys money wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 4:42 pm So many people jealous of the USA on here, hilarious.

Think you've spectacularly missed the point here. Do you really believe the US hasn't interfered in the internal politics of many South American countries and caused countless deaths by doing so?

And not just South American​countries either.. . Remember the Yanks supported Saddam Hussein, they virtually put him in power, till it suited them to remove him, they started a war against Iraq that caused almost a million deaths, most of them children, they are in Ukraine right in Putin's doorstep, and of course they are keeping the fascist government in power in Israel
America is a murderous vile country

What is your opinion on North Korea, Zimbabwe or Brazil fella?

All horrible regimes, with despots in control

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 6:59 pm All horrible regimes, with despots in control

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 10:38 am Just remember Maduro is a democratically elected leader, and as such, the people will have the chance to remove him, if they so wish, at the next General election
Its outrageous that a foreign power ( USA), should wish to remove a democratically elected government by force.
If were all honest we know, America wants to get its hands on the biggest supply of oil, in the world
America is just a terrorist state when it comes down to it

Amazing

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 6:45 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 4:54 pm

roffeys money wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 4:42 pm So many people jealous of the USA on here, hilarious.

Think you've spectacularly missed the point here. Do you really believe the US hasn't interfered in the internal politics of many South American countries and caused countless deaths by doing so?

And not just South American​countries either.. . Remember the Yanks supported Saddam Hussein, they virtually put him in power, till it suited them to remove him, they started a war against Iraq that caused almost a million deaths, most of them children, they are in Ukraine right in Putin's doorstep, and of course they are keeping the fascist government in power in Israel
America is a murderous vile country

Exactly

Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 6:47 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 6:45 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 4:54 pm

Think you've spectacularly missed the point here. Do you really believe the US hasn't interfered in the internal politics of many South American countries and caused countless deaths by doing so?

And not just South American​countries either.. . Remember the Yanks supported Saddam Hussein, they virtually put him in power, till it suited them to remove him, they started a war against Iraq that caused almost a million deaths, most of them children, they are in Ukraine right in Putin's doorstep, and of course they are keeping the fascist government in power in Israel
America is a murderous vile country

What is your opinion on North Korea, Zimbabwe or Brazil fella?

How many wars have they started or countries invaded?

The biggest oil reserves in the world, yet the people are starving with no medical supplies, and a corrupt government backed by Russia, North Korea and Iran. This is what Marxism is all about. As for Israel a fascist state, don’t make me laugh. The only democracy in the Middle East , where all religions enjoy equal rights as do gays and women. Israel is the only country in the area where Christians are not slaughtered,or suffering abuse.

I had much sympathy with the Chavistas when they started their programme of redistribution, tackling inequality, dismantling the corrupt bosses kleptocracy, and taking a larger share of the oil revenues for the State. But you don’t need to be an economic genius to realise relying on one source of income (oil) for your programme and spending all reserves straight away leaves you vulnerable to a price drop, especially when you have to “pay off” the Army to keep the former disgruntled bosses at bay.

I’d dispute this is what Marxism is all about. But if you’d said this is where Socialism-In-One-Country usually seems to end up in practice I think you’d be on safer ground.

It’s almost like the other countries won’t allow socialism to be successful anywhere.

Sort of. The US & “the west” after WW2 all gave much ground to socialist ideas in an effort to ward off “proper communism”. But the rise of monetarist neo-liberalism, the advent of industrial & technological globalisation, and the collapse of the Soviet threat has seen much of those earlier social concessions rescinded, and the power (& money) revert unequally to those who possess capital. For now.

Instances of the United States overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government)

China 1949 to early 1960s
Albania 1949-53
East Germany 1950s
Iran 1953 *
Guatemala 1954 *
Costa Rica mid-1950s
Syria 1956-7
Egypt 1957
Indonesia 1957-8
British Guiana 1953-64 *
Iraq 1963 *
North Vietnam 1945-73
Cambodia 1955-70 *
Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
Ecuador 1960-63 *
Congo 1960 *
France 1965
Brazil 1962-64 *
Dominican Republic 1963 *
Cuba 1959 to present
Bolivia 1964 *
Indonesia 1965 *
Ghana 1966 *
Chile 1964-73 *
Greece 1967 *
Costa Rica 1970-71
Bolivia 1971 *
Australia 1973-75 *
Angola 1975, 1980s
Zaire 1975
Portugal 1974-76 *
Jamaica 1976-80 *
Seychelles 1979-81
Chad 1981-82 *
Grenada 1983 *
South Yemen 1982-84
Suriname 1982-84
Fiji 1987 *
Libya 1980s
Nicaragua 1981-90 *
Panama 1989 *
Bulgaria 1990 *
Albania 1991 *
Iraq 1991
Afghanistan 1980s *
Somalia 1993
Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
Ecuador 2000 *
Afghanistan 2001 *
Venezuela 2002 *
Iraq 2003 *
Haiti 2004 *
Somalia 2007 to present
Honduras 2009 *
Libya 2011 *
Syria 2012
Ukraine 2014 *

That doesn't even include their puppet governments such as South Vietnam.

Yeah but they also gave us McDonalds and Burger King so it works both ways.

What a wonderful list of countries.

No UK there? They've more or less owned us since WW2

How is Venezuela's situation America's fault?

This report from CEPR Washington might explain it: http://cepr.net/publications/op-eds-col ... -venezuela

Prior to Chavez, the profits from Venez oil were being hoovered up by US Firms and their local cronies. Once Chavez nationalised the oil industry and used the profits instead for social redistribution, the US wasn’t happy.

I’m not claiming the Maduro government hasn’t developed into a nightmare administration, making loads of economic & policy mistakes. Just the situation is, as usual, more nuanced than that.

slacker wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 7:43 pm This report from CEPR Washington might explain it: http://cepr.net/publications/op-eds-col ... -venezuela

Prior to Chavez, the profits from Venez oil were being hoovered up by US Firms and their local cronies. Once Chavez nationalised the oil industry and used the profits instead for social redistribution, the US wasn’t happy.

I’m not claiming the Maduro government hasn’t developed into a nightmare administration, making loads of economic & policy mistakes. Just the situation is, as usual, more nuanced than that.

The UK govt has made loads of economic & policy mistakes so please explain why the US is not assisting with a Coup D'Etat here. They've been stealing Scotland's oil for years and we've let them.

Stealing Whose oil?. Scotland gets more cash per capita from Westminster than England.

Redcard wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:48 pm Stealing Whose oil?. Scotland gets more cash per capita from Westminster than England.

Wrong. Try again.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:49 pm

Redcard wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:48 pm Stealing Whose oil?. Scotland gets more cash per capita from Westminster than England.

Wrong. Try again.

Data below from www.parliament.uk - I can't vouch for it's 100% accuracy but where else would better figures be?

"In 2017/18, public spending per person in the UK as a whole was £9,350. In England, it was £9,080 (3% below the UK average). This compares with:

Scotland: £10,881 (16% above the UK average)
Wales: £10,397 (11% above the UK average)
Northern Ireland £11,190 (20% above the UK average).
Among the English regions, public spending per person was lowest in the South East at £8,297 (11% below the UK average) and highest in London at £10,323 (10% higher than the UK average).

The data shown are for public expenditure per person and are taken from HM Treasury’s Country and regional analysis: 2018, which contains more detailed information including spending by function (health, education etc)."

Don’t try and confuse Maxie boy with facts, remember he is a Marxist.