Independent Leyton Orient Forum

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:42 pm Not dithering. This is a major decision and he needs to get it right. In the meantime Ross has delivered 4 points from 6 so is holding the fort quite well for now.

Won’t be announced until Kent arrives and gets involved. Fair to me.

Why should Kent get involved? What does he know about a football manager’s credentials?

If he needs to get involved, we don’t need a DOF.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:14 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:42 pm Not dithering. This is a major decision and he needs to get it right. In the meantime Ross has delivered 4 points from 6 so is holding the fort quite well for now.

Won’t be announced until Kent arrives and gets involved. Fair to me.

Why should Kent get involved? What does he know about a football manager’s credentials?

If he needs to get involved, we don’t need a DOF.

Kent gets involved to see if he wants to pay the blokes wages, i would assume.
He has to like the bloke , he has to make a judgement call on him not wasting
Kents Money.

If he is going to come over once a month or however often it maybe , im sure Kent
would like to like the bloke, whoever it is .

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:49 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:52 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:50 pm

Fair dos. i messed my weeks up so I'll put my hands up to that error.

Do you understand the stages in the process flow for a new appointment though?

Of course. Which is why it’s so frustrating. After appointing an interim manager 4 months ago, this shouldn’t have taken longer than a week

You clearly don't understand because you're giving too much weight to an early stage and fast turnaround part of the process flow. That's ignoring your "had four months to do this" comments which have been debunked many times.

There’s nothing to debunk. He put his mate in charge to buy the club some time. He’s clearly done f*** all in tbat period and now we’re sifting through CVs whilst he makes a decision. He isn’t fit for the role.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:20 pm

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:14 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:42 pm Not dithering. This is a major decision and he needs to get it right. In the meantime Ross has delivered 4 points from 6 so is holding the fort quite well for now.

Won’t be announced until Kent arrives and gets involved. Fair to me.

Why should Kent get involved? What does he know about a football manager’s credentials?

If he needs to get involved, we don’t need a DOF.

Kent gets involved to see if he wants to pay the blokes wages, i would assume.
He has to like the bloke , he has to make a judgement call on him not wasting
Kents Money.

If he is going to come over once a month or however often it maybe , im sure Kent
would like to like the bloke, whoever it is .

He has to like the bloke?

Does he take him to the cinema, play cards with him or ask him which NFL team he supports?

This is all a simple process to select a player who can improve us on the field; it’s not a Tinder date fella.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:36 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:20 pm

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:14 pm

Why should Kent get involved? What does he know about a football manager’s credentials?

If he needs to get involved, we don’t need a DOF.

Kent gets involved to see if he wants to pay the blokes wages, i would assume.
He has to like the bloke , he has to make a judgement call on him not wasting
Kents Money.

If he is going to come over once a month or however often it maybe , im sure Kent
would like to like the bloke, whoever it is .

He has to like the bloke?

Does he take him to the cinema, play cards with him or ask him which NFL team he supports?

This is all a simple process to select a player who can improve us on the field; it’s not a Tinder date fella.

No he has to think , yeah i can support this fella .
He's not going to be thinking , i wish Justin wasn't Dead as i wouldnt have to deal with this D*ck .

He put his mate in charge in the belief that he could make the step up and actually make a go of it. Had it worked out differently then Ross could have got the gig. Willing to bet that was the long term aim from Ling. It’s not unusual for caretaker managers to get the job. I’ve no doubt that was what the Board wanted too.

So there is no reason to go behind RE’s back, act like a complete bumhole, maybe undermine everything Ross tried as the rumours started and call it forward planning. Some people need to understand what integrity is.

Choosing Ross I will always believe was wrong, bad choice and unfair on Ross.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:42 pm He put his mate in charge in the belief that he could make the step up and actually make a go of it. Had it worked out differently then Ross could have got the gig. Willing to bet that was the long term aim from Ling. It’s not unusual for caretaker managers to get the job. I’ve no doubt that was what the Board wanted too.

So there is no reason to go behind RE’s back, act like a complete bumhole, maybe undermine everything Ross tried as the rumours started and call it forward planning. Some people need to understand what integrity is.

Choosing Ross I will always believe was wrong, bad choice and unfair on Ross.

For him to place all his faith in Ross without thinking of the best fit to take over long term if it failed is very short sighted and worrying. Ross would have taken it full time if he thought he was capable.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:53 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:42 pm He put his mate in charge in the belief that he could make the step up and actually make a go of it. Had it worked out differently then Ross could have got the gig. Willing to bet that was the long term aim from Ling. It’s not unusual for caretaker managers to get the job. I’ve no doubt that was what the Board wanted too.

So there is no reason to go behind RE’s back, act like a complete bumhole, maybe undermine everything Ross tried as the rumours started and call it forward planning. Some people need to understand what integrity is.

Choosing Ross I will always believe was wrong, bad choice and unfair on Ross.

For him to place all his faith in Ross without thinking of the best fit to take over long term if it failed is very short sighted and worrying. Ross would have taken it full time if he thought he was capable.

He probably hoped Ross would be the long term. My guess is the Board hoped for this too. It wasn’t the Board that removed Ross and I don’t think they would have for quite some time. All things being Okish he would have got the season.

It was Ross that decided to call it a day, not Ling and not the Board. I dare say it’s not an outcome they expected and not one they wanted. Unplanned and unexpected.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:29 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:49 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:52 pm
Of course. Which is why it’s so frustrating. After appointing an interim manager 4 months ago, this shouldn’t have taken longer than a week

You clearly don't understand because you're giving too much weight to an early stage and fast turnaround part of the process flow. That's ignoring your "had four months to do this" comments which have been debunked many times.

There’s nothing to debunk. He put his mate in charge to buy the club some time. He’s clearly done f*** all in tbat period and now we’re sifting through CVs whilst he makes a decision. He isn’t fit for the role.

That's pretty harsh

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:57 pm

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:58 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:52 pm
Of course. Which is why it’s so frustrating. After appointing an interim manager 4 months ago, this shouldn’t have taken longer than a week

Absolute rubbish, it was thought by Martin Ling that Ross could do the manager's job. He has admitted that he is a coach and not a manager so we started to look for his replacement. If we appointed a manager after a week of searching and interviews and he was a failure, you would be the first to complain.

If he thought he was suitable long term, he needs sacking asap

Spouting out more rubbish I see.

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:54 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:29 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:49 pm

You clearly don't understand because you're giving too much weight to an early stage and fast turnaround part of the process flow. That's ignoring your "had four months to do this" comments which have been debunked many times.

There’s nothing to debunk. He put his mate in charge to buy the club some time. He’s clearly done f*** all in tbat period and now we’re sifting through CVs whilst he makes a decision. He isn’t fit for the role.

That's pretty harsh

And even more utter rubbish, if you hate Martin Ling so much clear off and support another club.

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:38 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:54 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:29 pm
There’s nothing to debunk. He put his mate in charge to buy the club some time. He’s clearly done f*** all in tbat period and now we’re sifting through CVs whilst he makes a decision. He isn’t fit for the role.

That's pretty harsh

And even more utter rubbish, if you hate Martin Ling so much clear off and support another club.

Hate him? I don’t know him. I’m sure he’s a nice bloke, just not suited to his job, much like his son I suppose

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:29 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:49 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:52 pm
Of course. Which is why it’s so frustrating. After appointing an interim manager 4 months ago, this shouldn’t have taken longer than a week

You clearly don't understand because you're giving too much weight to an early stage and fast turnaround part of the process flow. That's ignoring your "had four months to do this" comments which have been debunked many times.

There’s nothing to debunk. He put his mate in charge to buy the club some time. He’s clearly done f*** all in tbat period and now we’re sifting through CVs whilst he makes a decision. He isn’t fit for the role.

We're not sifting through CVs at the moment. That's been done already. The process has long moved on from that.

Every time you reply you provide more evidence that you don't understand the process and that undermines everything you say on this matter.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:19 pm

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:38 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:54 pm

That's pretty harsh

And even more utter rubbish, if you hate Martin Ling so much clear off and support another club.

Hate him? I don’t know him. I’m sure he’s a nice bloke, just not suited to his job, much like his son I suppose

And of course, he had nothing to do with the club getting out of the National League in just two seasons. From no players to promotion in that short space of time, he really is not suited to his job is he?

If Ling Snr had drawn up a short list four months ago it wouldn't be very relevant now, half the people on that list would be in other roles and some decent candidates would be available now who were not back in June. It's taken less than two weeks so far which has included reviewing CV's, Informal and formal interviews, that in business terms is pretty quick, I'm sure the appointment will come on Monday when the owners have made the final interviews - it's not a long time to wait to get the right man it's too important a decision to rush.

Don't get the rage and continual sniping at Ling Snr who has played a massive part in turning this club around in the last two and a half years, he's doing a great job.

Top of the West. wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:38 pm If Ling Snr had drawn up a short list four months ago it wouldn't be very relevant now, half the people on that list would be in other roles and some decent candidates would be available now who were not back in June. It's taken less than two weeks so far which has included reviewing CV's, Informal and formal interviews, that in business terms is pretty quick, I'm sure the appointment will come on Monday when the owners have made the final interviews - it's not a long time to wait to get the right man it's too important a decision to rush.

Don't get the rage and continual sniping at Ling Snr who has played a massive part in turning this club around in the last two and a half years, he's doing a great job.

Exactly this, we have a thread called the Manager Merry Go Round because it is an ever changing situation.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:38 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:29 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:49 pm

You clearly don't understand because you're giving too much weight to an early stage and fast turnaround part of the process flow. That's ignoring your "had four months to do this" comments which have been debunked many times.

There’s nothing to debunk. He put his mate in charge to buy the club some time. He’s clearly done f*** all in tbat period and now we’re sifting through CVs whilst he makes a decision. He isn’t fit for the role.

We're not sifting through CVs at the moment. That's been done already. The process has long moved on from that.

Every time you reply you provide more evidence that you don't understand the process and that undermines everything you say on this matter.

You're missing the point completely. He's waited until Ross has stepped down to start this process. Anyone with half a brain could see by mid-August, it wasn't going to work out, yet the process still began once Ross 'stepped down'.

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:12 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:19 pm

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:38 pm

And even more utter rubbish, if you hate Martin Ling so much clear off and support another club.

Hate him? I don’t know him. I’m sure he’s a nice bloke, just not suited to his job, much like his son I suppose

And of course, he had nothing to do with the club getting out of the National League in just two seasons. From no players to promotion in that short space of time, he really is not suited to his job is he?

Did he manage the team to promotion? Let's not forget Steve Davis either.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:58 am

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:12 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:19 pm
Hate him? I don’t know him. I’m sure he’s a nice bloke, just not suited to his job, much like his son I suppose

And of course, he had nothing to do with the club getting out of the National League in just two seasons. From no players to promotion in that short space of time, he really is not suited to his job is he?

Did he manage the team to promotion? Let's not forget Steve Davis either.

At the time Steve Davis was considered to be the best option. The manager who got us promoted was under contract at Northampton Town and was chosen by Martin Ling when he was available. Martin Ling signed a lot of the players who got us promoted in the space of six weeks after he accepted the DOF job.

Top of the West. wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:38 pm If Ling Snr had drawn up a short list four months ago it wouldn't be very relevant now, half the people on that list would be in other roles and some decent candidates would be available now who were not back in June. It's taken less than two weeks so far which has included reviewing CV's, Informal and formal interviews, that in business terms is pretty quick, I'm sure the appointment will come on Monday when the owners have made the final interviews - it's not a long time to wait to get the right man it's too important a decision to rush.

Don't get the rage and continual sniping at Ling Snr who has played a massive part in turning this club around in the last two and a half years, he's doing a great job.

I said he's had 4 months to do it - even start some preparations, I didn't say "he should have had the list drawn up 4 months ago".

In the betting for the job, Currie and Calderwood were in their jobs long before those 4 months. Derek Adams hasn't managed since April. Constatine left India in January. Nugent is managing MIllwall u23s. Martin Allen hasn't managed since last year. Sol Campbell left in August. Out of the 7 'front runners' for the job, none of those managers have left their role and joined another club. It's going to be one of his mates employed anyway.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:19 pm

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:38 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:54 pm

That's pretty harsh

And even more utter rubbish, if you hate Martin Ling so much clear off and support another club.

Hate him? I don’t know him. I’m sure he’s a nice bloke, just not suited to his job, much like his son I suppose

Not good at his job?

He built a squad & structure & got us back in the the league within 2 seasons. Don't be such an ungrateful, clueless berk.

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:11 am

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:58 am

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:12 pm

And of course, he had nothing to do with the club getting out of the National League in just two seasons. From no players to promotion in that short space of time, he really is not suited to his job is he?

Did he manage the team to promotion? Let's not forget Steve Davis either.

At the time Steve Davis was considered to be the best option. The manager who got us promoted was under contract at Northampton Town and was chosen by Martin Ling when he was available. Martin Ling signed a lot of the players who got us promoted in the space of six weeks ater he accepted the DOF job.

Best man for the job? You just had to look at his results with Crewe in the previous 3 or 4 years to see how crap he was, let alone his sh*t on a stick football. He made some good signings, but he also made a load of crap ones too.

O my gawd wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:13 am

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:19 pm

Lovejoy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:38 pm

And even more utter rubbish, if you hate Martin Ling so much clear off and support another club.

Hate him? I don’t know him. I’m sure he’s a nice bloke, just not suited to his job, much like his son I suppose

Not good at his job?

He built a squad & structure & got us back in the the league within 2 seasons. Don't be such an ungrateful, clueless berk.

What structure would that be? The structure in place was put there by the owners. Ungrateful for what?

The entire club - board, staff, players, fans - started the season in a state of grief and mourning. This was literally unprecedented, I can't think of any other club that has had to content with the death of its current head coach before kicking a ball in a new division. Bringing in someone from the outside in the summer was always a non-starter, how can anyone have come into that and started well? Look at the Wales team when Gary Speed died and his friend Chris Coleman took over, they lost their first 5 games and Coleman considered quitting. Anyone coming in to Orient in the summer would have needed a lot of time and patience to get everyone through that grief, and we've seen with Ross how little of the latter there is among some fans. The chances are we'd have had a poor start regardless, and some fans would have turned on the new man for not being Justin.

So it had to be Ross as next in line to try and manage the team in the Justin Edinburgh 'way' through the early part of the season, but with his own take on things. Giving him the 'interim' title was absolutely the correct decision - if it turned out well and Ross took to being the head man then it would have been made permanent in due course, if it didn't work out (as has been the case) then it meant Ross wasn't faced with the sack for taking on an almost impossible situation.

As others have said, it would have been grossly undermining Ross for Martin Ling to start looking round for a new head coach before Ross had had a few games to see how it went. How could you do that to someone who's stepped up and done the right thing for the club, and who was going to be in one role or another whatever happened? There aren't 'some preparations' Martin Ling could have made earlier - what does that even mean? You don't prepare for recruitment that may or may not be required, you start it off when you need to - particularly in a volatile jobs market where managers come and go in the early part of the season (as has been said, JE wasn't available when Steve Davis was appointed).

So the decision having been made by Ross, that's the point the recruitment process had to start. Ling made it perfectly clear the day of the announcement about Ross - they have a process, it's a process that got us Justin so no need to change it, so they'll follow that whether it takes 1, 2, 3 games or whatever for it to run its course.

I personally cannot see a single thing the club has done wrong regarding the managerial situation, from the moment Justin had his heart attack. I fully expect a new head coach will be in place for the Grimsby game, with Ross having had 3 league games in charge since the announcement.

Very well said. I agree with every word.