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Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:53 pm
by Mistadobalina
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:40 pm
Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:10 am
Mickys Bullock wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:09 am
Climate has always changed ffs.
Listening to propaganda will be the downfall of civilisation. There is no evidence for anthropogenic climate change apart from corrupt scientist and governments.
What’s in it for the scientists ?
Money . Keeps their funding rolling in .
This argument is nuts for the simple reason it supposes that academic researchers have more financial clout than the entire fossil fuel industry who's interests they are actively working against.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:55 pm
by Rich Tea Wellin
Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:53 pm
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:40 pm
Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:10 am
What’s in it for the scientists ?
Money . Keeps their funding rolling in .
This argument is nuts for the simple reason it supposes that academic researchers have more financial clout than the entire fossil fuel industry who's interests they are actively working against.
This.
The fact that this goes directly against consumerism and big money firms make it absolutely more believable.
You can't have it both ways.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:06 pm
by Proposition Joe
But as per his replies above, clearly that's what they want.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:16 pm
by Currywurst and Chips
I guess people just don’t understand fiduciary duty
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:20 pm
by Real Al
WilliamTell wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 10:40 am
Who would you trust for information?
Personally, I trust anyone on social media who has Citizen Journalist in their bio
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:23 pm
by Long slender neck
PKM wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:27 pm
What’s ‘green’ about electric cars & wind turbines?
These sort of technologies require vast quantities of lithium, rare earth metals, copper, nickel etc
Anyone ever done the carbon mass balance on this.
Could be oil and gas is less polluting/carbon emissions.
And what about wind turbine blades? Try recycling those, read states have got a problem with that, solved it by burying them where they will stay like that for almost ever.
You know what mate? I reckon some boffins have indeed carried out these calculations. What do you reckon the answer was?
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:25 pm
by Long slender neck
And if you truly are interested in 'recycling wind turbine blades'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68225891
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:33 pm
by Long slender neck
From the RAC
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-ca ... vironment/
EV whole lifecycle impact
Vehicle ‘lifecycle analyses’ – taking account of all the emissions from the mining of ores, the manufacture of vehicles and batteries, and the in-use energy consumption of petrol, diesel or electricity – show large overall CO2 savings for EVs compared to conventional vehicles.
The British Government’s key 2018 publication The Road to Zero stated that EVs ‘have substantially lower greenhouse gas emissions than conventional vehicles, even when taking into account the electricity source and the electricity used for battery production. Assuming the current UK energy mix, battery electric vehicles produce the lowest greenhouse gas emissions of all the energy sources and fuels assessed, irrespective of vehicle type and operation’.17
The report estimated that in 2018 an electric car in the UK had total associated greenhouse gas emissions 66% lower than a petrol car and 60% lower than a diesel car.
It also estimated that by 2050, emissions from UK electricity generation would fall by 90% because renewables will dominate generation. Emissions associated with EV use will fall in parallel.
So are electric vehicles better for the environment?
The evidence says they are.
Now you can stop worrying and get on with being green, PKM.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:35 pm
by George M
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:39 pm
by George M
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:33 pm
From the RAC
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-ca ... vironment/
EV whole lifecycle impact
Vehicle ‘lifecycle analyses’ – taking account of all the emissions from the mining of ores, the manufacture of vehicles and batteries, and the in-use energy consumption of petrol, diesel or electricity – show large overall CO2 savings for EVs compared to conventional vehicles.
The British Government’s key 2018 publication The Road to Zero stated that EVs ‘have substantially lower greenhouse gas emissions than conventional vehicles, even when taking into account the electricity source and the electricity used for battery production. Assuming the current UK energy mix, battery electric vehicles produce the lowest greenhouse gas emissions of all the energy sources and fuels assessed, irrespective of vehicle type and operation’.17
The report estimated that in 2018 an electric car in the UK had total associated greenhouse gas emissions 66% lower than a petrol car and 60% lower than a diesel car.
It also estimated that by 2050, emissions from UK electricity generation would fall by 90% because renewables will dominate generation. Emissions associated with EV use will fall in parallel.
So are electric vehicles better for the environment?
The evidence says they are.
Now you can stop worrying and get on with being green, PKM.
Remember believing the bullshit about Covid from our scientists and government. Most of it , not all , proven to be rubbish and incompetently handled. And now you jump straight back in on the net zero rubbish. Not disputing the science. But don’t believe or agree with the policies.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:39 pm
by Proposition Joe
"Not disputing the science, just don't believe it". Amazing.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:41 pm
by PKM
Yes, recycling interests me.
Sounds like they’re still to solve the problem.
‘Innovative solutions such as repurposing blades into playgrounds or bike sheds have been shown to be effective at a local level but, with some experts predicting up to 43 million tonnes of wind turbine blade waste by 2050, there is a pressing need for a system that will work on a bigger scale.’
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:42 pm
by PKM
George M wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:39 pm
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:33 pm
From the RAC
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-ca ... vironment/
EV whole lifecycle impact
Vehicle ‘lifecycle analyses’ – taking account of all the emissions from the mining of ores, the manufacture of vehicles and batteries, and the in-use energy consumption of petrol, diesel or electricity – show large overall CO2 savings for EVs compared to conventional vehicles.
The British Government’s key 2018 publication The Road to Zero stated that EVs ‘have substantially lower greenhouse gas emissions than conventional vehicles, even when taking into account the electricity source and the electricity used for battery production. Assuming the current UK energy mix, battery electric vehicles produce the lowest greenhouse gas emissions of all the energy sources and fuels assessed, irrespective of vehicle type and operation’.17
The report estimated that in 2018 an electric car in the UK had total associated greenhouse gas emissions 66% lower than a petrol car and 60% lower than a diesel car.
It also estimated that by 2050, emissions from UK electricity generation would fall by 90% because renewables will dominate generation. Emissions associated with EV use will fall in parallel.
So are electric vehicles better for the environment?
The evidence says they are.
Now you can stop worrying and get on with being green, PKM.
Remember believing the bullshit about Covid from our scientists and government. Most of it , not all , proven to be rubbish and incompetently handled. And now you jump straight back in on the net zero rubbish. Not disputing the science. But don’t believe or agree with the policies.
Not sure I believe a word of that tbh.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:44 pm
by Long slender neck
George M wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:35 pm
They can’t then
Cant you read? They're already recycling 85% and working on the rest.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:46 pm
by Long slender neck
PKM wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:41 pm
Yes, recycling interests me.
Sounds like they’re still to solve the problem.
‘Innovative solutions such as repurposing blades into playgrounds or bike sheds have been shown to be effective at a local level but, with some experts predicting up to 43 million tonnes of wind turbine blade waste by 2050, there is a pressing need for a system that will work on a bigger scale.’
85% recyclable and improving sounds pretty good to me.
How much of a coal plant is recyclable?
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:49 pm
by RedDwarf 1881
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:46 pm
PKM wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:41 pm
Yes, recycling interests me.
Sounds like they’re still to solve the problem.
‘Innovative solutions such as repurposing blades into playgrounds or bike sheds have been shown to be effective at a local level but, with some experts predicting up to 43 million tonnes of wind turbine blade waste by 2050, there is a pressing need for a system that will work on a bigger scale.’
85% recyclable and improving sounds pretty good to me.
How much of a coal plant is recyclable?
Ask the Chinese . They seem to be opening up a new one every week
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:53 pm
by PKM
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:46 pm
PKM wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:41 pm
Yes, recycling interests me.
Sounds like they’re still to solve the problem.
‘Innovative solutions such as repurposing blades into playgrounds or bike sheds have been shown to be effective at a local level but, with some experts predicting up to 43 million tonnes of wind turbine blade waste by 2050, there is a pressing need for a system that will work on a bigger scale.’
85% recyclable and improving sounds pretty good to me.
How much of a coal plant is recyclable?
Who’s talking about ‘coal plants’ whatever they are.
Irrelevant
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:56 pm
by Long slender neck
Its not irrelevant, if you are anti wind power then how do you suggest we generate electricity?
Or just admit it, you dont care, you just dont want to have to make effort or expense to improve things at all.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:06 pm
by PKM
I didn’t say I was anti wind power.
What I said is these things are not as straightforward as people like to make out.
As to your last sentence, I will perhaps grant you that you have posted out of ignorance on a bb where , by and large, folks are not aware of what other people may or may not have done.
I have spent my professional career in reducing waste and recycling and in the area I was working in achieved a great deal of success in terms of increasing recycling rates, finding new markets for recycled products, reducing material sent to landfill.
I will not bore you with all the details, but your assumptions are so way off the mark and , unfortunately, your sort of behaviour is all too common.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:13 pm
by George M
Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:39 pm
"Not disputing the science, just don't believe it". Amazing.
Have another read. I clearly said that the policies / initiatives used to address the issues science highlights are mostly nonsense
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:16 pm
by George M
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:46 pm
PKM wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:41 pm
Yes, recycling interests me.
Sounds like they’re still to solve the problem.
‘Innovative solutions such as repurposing blades into playgrounds or bike sheds have been shown to be effective at a local level but, with some experts predicting up to 43 million tonnes of wind turbine blade waste by 2050, there is a pressing need for a system that will work on a bigger scale.’
85% recyclable and improving sounds pretty good to me.
How much of a coal plant is recyclable?
Perhaps you need to. The 85% is talking about the main structure and not the blades , which was what the original question referred to.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:30 pm
by Long slender neck
PKM wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:06 pm
I didn’t say I was anti wind power.
What I said is these things are not as straightforward as people like to make out.
As to your last sentence, I will perhaps grant you that you have posted out of ignorance on a bb where , by and large, folks are not aware of what other people may or may not have done.
I have spent my professional career in reducing waste and recycling and in the area I was working in achieved a great deal of success in terms of increasing recycling rates, finding new markets for recycled products, reducing material sent to landfill.
I will not bore you with all the details, but your assumptions are so way off the mark and , unfortunately, your sort of behaviour is all too common.
They're working on it.
Danish company Vestas, the largest wind turbine producer in Europe, announced last year an approach that uses a liquid chemical solution to break down the blades into materials which can then potentially be used to make new blades.
A major advantage of this approach, according to Vestas, is that it uses widely available chemicals, though details haven't been disclosed. The process has the added benefit of not requiring energy-intensive high temperatures.
Both of these traits hint at potential scalability, with the company claiming to have recycled 475 end-of-life blades in 2022.
If technologies such as these succeed "then not only can we solve the problem of new waste coming through, but we can also actually tackle historic waste," according to Dr Barlow.
I apologise if I was wrong about you, but you were sounding like a typical climate skeptic. And I dont know what you're suggesting, that we shouldnt use wind power? Few things are perfect but surely you can see that solutions will be found to these problems and wind is still better than fossil fuels, even if we end up with piles of turbine blades everywhere.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:57 pm
by StillSpike
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:40 pm
Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:10 am
Mickys Bullock wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 8:09 am
Climate has always changed ffs.
Listening to propaganda will be the downfall of civilisation. There is no evidence for anthropogenic climate change apart from corrupt scientist and governments.
What’s in it for the scientists ?
Money . Keeps their funding rolling in .
Whereas those nice folk from the oil and gas industry are doing their thing for the benefit of mankind.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:07 pm
by faldO
As Miliband said yesterday, we need more homegrown clean energy like wind and solar that we can control.
Re: BP - profits before climate
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:07 pm
by George M
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:56 pm
Its not irrelevant, if you are anti wind power then how do you suggest we generate electricity?
Or just admit it, you dont care, you just dont want to have to make effort or expense to improve things at all.
Nobody is doubting that wind , water , solar has to be a better solution than oil going forwards but , science has to prove beyond doubt that the manufacture and disposal of at end of life is less damaging than fossil fuel. Evidence of this is sketchy and not something I would trust government on .