Independent Leyton Orient Forum

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 11:27 am

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 11:15 am Tbf though how much is it actually like that Jackett Jan window? Obviously hindsight is difficult to judge without bias but:

The overall theme of "play the youth and a few journeymen as we can't afford to give you anything else". Comparing a January with a summer window isn't a like for like, as Ling was at lengths to tell us after the recent January failure that there were plenty more options in summer. Seemingly not the case this year as we've just been told.

We've seen a lot of pros go out the door and only youths arrive in their place. Even Jackett didn't have to deal with two loanee GKs which still seems more ridiculous each time it's written.

Richie has his work cut out to make something of this group, he's got more ability and drive to make it work than Jackett did but let's not pretend he's been given a good hand to work with here.

PKM wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 12:18 pm O’s transfer policy

1. Has he got two functioning legs?

PKM wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 12:18 pm O’s transfer policy

1. Has he got two functioning legs?
2. Is he ‘well thought of’ by a Premier team and under 21 so will be cheap
3. Will the Prem team pay all/most of his wages whilst on loan here?
4. Has he had a serious injury in last few years and so will be ‘cheap’
5. Has he ‘blotted his copy book’ so will be cheap?

Honestly, Ritchie has to work miracles with a bunch of kids/loans/cast offs/misfits.
Then he has to repeat the exercise every year!
What an effin’ job!

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 12:11 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 11:27 am

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 11:15 am Tbf though how much is it actually like that Jackett Jan window? Obviously hindsight is difficult to judge without bias but:

The overall theme of "play the youth and a few journeymen as we can't afford to give you anything else". Comparing a January with a summer window isn't a like for like, as Ling was at lengths to tell us after the recent January failure that there were plenty more options in summer. Seemingly not the case this year as we've just been told.

We've seen a lot of pros go out the door and only youths arrive in their place. Even Jackett didn't have to deal with two loanee GKs which still seems more ridiculous each time it's written.

Richie has his work cut out to make something of this group, he's got more ability and drive to make it work than Jackett did but let's not pretend he's been given a good hand to work with here.

I think we have a much better squad now than under Jackett. And I think we’ve got an adequate squad for what the board is realistically looking to achieve this year.

The disconnect is between fans expectations and the clubs. Although Richie obviously wants to win every week he’s already come out and said that considering the strength of the league it’s probably not the right year to make a promotion push.

With that in mind would you rather:
Scenario A: our current scenario whereby we save a bit of money on youngsters and loans with a manager good enough to get a mid table finish in a very competitive league. Albeit with a risk that a few key injuries puts us in trouble. Gives us a fresh slate to build a promotion team next season.

Scenario B: we splash out on experienced pros and more depth. Being experienced pros they will want potentially 50% more wages if not more and guaranteed 2-3 year contracts. So we do a bit better, maybe push playoffs but are on the hook for the wages next season after a few flop or get injured.

It’s depressing as a fan but it’s practical and a long term vision. I think the current regime are making a few bad commercial decisions and are taking some risks with the budget and losing Richie but they’ve got a track record of success and I think they deserve our reserved judgement until the end of next season at least

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 12:19 pm

PKM wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 12:18 pm O’s transfer policy

1. Has he got two functioning legs?

You’ve managed to get it wrong on point 1

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 12:36 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 12:11 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 11:27 am

The overall theme of "play the youth and a few journeymen as we can't afford to give you anything else". Comparing a January with a summer window isn't a like for like, as Ling was at lengths to tell us after the recent January failure that there were plenty more options in summer. Seemingly not the case this year as we've just been told.

We've seen a lot of pros go out the door and only youths arrive in their place. Even Jackett didn't have to deal with two loanee GKs which still seems more ridiculous each time it's written.

Richie has his work cut out to make something of this group, he's got more ability and drive to make it work than Jackett did but let's not pretend he's been given a good hand to work with here.

I think we have a much better squad now than under Jackett. And I think we’ve got an adequate squad for what the board is realistically looking to achieve this year.

The disconnect is between fans expectations and the clubs. Although Richie obviously wants to win every week he’s already come out and said that considering the strength of the league it’s probably not the right year to make a promotion push.

With that in mind would you rather:
Scenario A: our current scenario whereby we save a bit of money on youngsters and loans with a manager good enough to get a mid table finish in a very competitive league. Albeit with a risk that a few key injuries puts us in trouble. Gives us a fresh slate to build a promotion team next season.

Scenario B: we splash out on experienced pros and more depth. Being experienced pros they will want potentially 50% more wages if not more and guaranteed 2-3 year contracts. So we do a bit better, maybe push playoffs but are on the hook for the wages next season after a few flop or get injured.

It’s depressing as a fan but it’s practical and a long term vision. I think the current regime are making a few bad commercial decisions and are taking some risks with the budget and losing Richie but they’ve got a track record of success and I think they deserve our reserved judgement until the end of next season at least

For the spine of the team B, there's a few positions you spend the money to get a strong spine

a) goalkeeper
b) ball-winning midfield player / captain
c) back line

We're pretty solid at the back, though it's taken to the last minute to get (hopefully) a decent quality LB so no quibbles there.

It's cheaping out on the first two that's a false economy imo. Ending up with two loanees in goal is just bizarre. Also doesn't say much for the quality of what the academy is producing if neither of those at the club are a viable reserve GK and we sign a Spurs academy player instead.

The thing with this approach is it's not going to generate any money as the bulk of the players aren't ours, which comes back to the question I submitted to the Q&A which wasn't even asked... how does the club fill the 3-4 million a year gap if there's not a big player sale each year?

The Reverend wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 9:30 am The biggest impact of our transfer policy of signing loanee kids and freebies is that eventually Wellens will get fed up. As soon as a club who can actually offer him a reasonable transfer budget comes along he’ll leave. And I wouldn’t really blame him.

Losing Wellens will be a bigger blow than losing any of the current playing squad.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 12:48 pm Agree with most of that. There’s a balance to be had and it would have been good to nail down more of a foundation going into next season. The benefit of having young players is that they can easily develop into the core foundations. I think there’s a chance ( I know you disagree) that brown gets there as he’s improved a lot each season and is still young.