Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:26 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:22 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:37 am
Why would a gentile want to join a Jewish supporters club?

Going back to my initial question, why would anyone want to joint this club, what is its purpose?

You do not have to joint it do you?

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:31 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:26 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:22 am

Going back to my initial question, why would anyone want to joint this club, what is its purpose?

You do not have to joint it do you?

I could but no, i don’t have to, you are quite right.

Not sure what that has to do with asking what the point of it is, though.

coggos wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:09 am I cannot see the point of this new grouping. Surely we are all Orient fans together. Why lay down dividing lines?

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:36 am Could have predicted this would become some kind of culture war issue. Depressing. Hope the new group goes well for all concerned,

Did notice though that one of the founders seems to spend an inordinate amount of time throwing around accusations of antisemitism and general abuse online. Assume these are his personal views, rather than those of this official Orient supporters group.

o-no wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:12 pm Is it a “culture war issue” though. Because this looks to me like a fairly reasonably discussion surrounding a new group and what the need for it is. I don’t see the need for it, but I’m not against it and I’m certainly not saying it shouldn’t be allowed - I just think we’re all better together. Having separate groups for separate interests is by definition divisive, but good luck to them if that’s what they want to do. I hope they keep their political views internal though because LOFC has associated itself with this group now and I think they should be aligned in their values otherwise it almost certainly will become an issue.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:09 pm We have supporters groups for LGBT and Punjabi fans. Some of these comments are quite unpleasant.

bobo66 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 2:01 pm

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 12:59 pm

Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:50 am As bobo66 has just said what is the difference which god you pray to, we all love the same club so race or religion should not even be considered.

Especially, when, if you look at events in the world today, it's clear there is no "God", and the ludicrous interpretations/fairy stories built up around said "God", cast as "religion" contribute to most of the genocide on the planet.

Notwithstanding, for me, the Jewish community represent a fine example of integration into this country. Along with others, but unlike others too.

I have Jewish friends and they are amazing people without doubt.

However for me, yet another "are you in our club?" group, is only likely to increase division, not eradicate it and bring unity (which is what I, and no doubt most, want).

London' simpleton mayor's statement of "diversity is our strength" is laughable to all apart from those that wear a red rosette. We should be looking towards "unity", not "diversity".

If there are 3 people sitting at a bus-stop that follow 3 religions and speak 3 different languages and can't communicate, that is not a strength, but a representation of failed unity and a failed system of integration.

Groups of this nature only increase division, by pointing out diffences, and do not promote unity; though of course I do wish "them" (as they clearly now wish to be seen) all well and all success with this venture.

I don't think any of the major conflicts in the world today can be considered to be based on religions, they are about land. What's more to the point in my earlier post, is that you are an atheist, I am a Christian but we are both Orient supporters.

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:37 pm

o-no wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:12 pm Is it a “culture war issue” though. Because this looks to me like a fairly reasonably discussion surrounding a new group and what the need for it is. I don’t see the need for it, but I’m not against it and I’m certainly not saying it shouldn’t be allowed - I just think we’re all better together. Having separate groups for separate interests is by definition divisive, but good luck to them if that’s what they want to do. I hope they keep their political views internal though because LOFC has associated itself with this group now and I think they should be aligned in their values otherwise it almost certainly will become an issue.

I am fairly sure you do not have to be LGBT to be a supporter of LGBT supporters group . These groups collectively can give individuals comfort and knowledge that they are not alone. I often go to matches alone these days . I am indifferent had I had the choice to go with others but some I expect prefer company. The comments on here about ‘we are of LO fans together’ and implying we are all harmonious made me laugh, especially when thinking of some of the hostile comments on the board at times together with some heated exchanges I have witnessed between our fans at the ground over the years and local pubs. Not entirely hunky dory!

o-no wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:25 pm

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:37 pm

o-no wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:12 pm Is it a “culture war issue” though. Because this looks to me like a fairly reasonably discussion surrounding a new group and what the need for it is. I don’t see the need for it, but I’m not against it and I’m certainly not saying it shouldn’t be allowed - I just think we’re all better together. Having separate groups for separate interests is by definition divisive, but good luck to them if that’s what they want to do. I hope they keep their political views internal though because LOFC has associated itself with this group now and I think they should be aligned in their values otherwise it almost certainly will become an issue.

I am fairly sure you do not have to be LGBT to be a supporter of LGBT supporters group . These groups collectively can give individuals comfort and knowledge that they are not alone. I often go to matches alone these days . I am indifferent had I had the choice to go with others but some I expect prefer company. The comments on here about ‘we are of LO fans together’ and implying we are all harmonious made me laugh, especially when thinking of some of the hostile comments on the board at times together with some heated exchanges I have witnessed between our fans at the ground over the years and local pubs. Not entirely hunky dory!

I'm not sure what point you are making. Whilst we can all agree that the O's are without doubt the finest football team anywhere, it doesn't mean we can't have different opinions about other things, and express those opinions passionately.

As for not having to be LGBT to be a 'supporter' of an LGBT supporters group - are you suggesting that you don't have to be LGBT to be a member of the group, because I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a requirement that you are LGBT to be in their group, otherwise it isn't really an LGBT group, it's just a group. Perhaps I have misunderstood you and you are saying anyone can 'support' the LGBT supporters group, but that is fairly obvious and doesn't really need pointing out.

o-no wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:25 pm
As for not having to be LGBT to be a 'supporter' of an LGBT supporters group - are you suggesting that you don't have to be LGBT to be a member of the group, because I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a requirement that you are LGBT to be in their group, otherwise it isn't really an LGBT group, it's just a group. Perhaps I have misunderstood you and you are saying anyone can 'support' the LGBT supporters group, but that is fairly obvious and doesn't really need pointing out.

o-no wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:25 pm

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:37 pm

o-no wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:12 pm Is it a “culture war issue” though. Because this looks to me like a fairly reasonably discussion surrounding a new group and what the need for it is. I don’t see the need for it, but I’m not against it and I’m certainly not saying it shouldn’t be allowed - I just think we’re all better together. Having separate groups for separate interests is by definition divisive, but good luck to them if that’s what they want to do. I hope they keep their political views internal though because LOFC has associated itself with this group now and I think they should be aligned in their values otherwise it almost certainly will become an issue.

I am fairly sure you do not have to be LGBT to be a supporter of LGBT supporters group . These groups collectively can give individuals comfort and knowledge that they are not alone. I often go to matches alone these days . I am indifferent had I had the choice to go with others but some I expect prefer company. The comments on here about ‘we are of LO fans together’ and implying we are all harmonious made me laugh, especially when thinking of some of the hostile comments on the board at times together with some heated exchanges I have witnessed between our fans at the ground over the years and local pubs. Not entirely hunky dory!

I'm not sure what point you are making. Whilst we can all agree that the O's are without doubt the finest football team anywhere, it doesn't mean we can't have different opinions about other things, and express those opinions passionately.

As for not having to be LGBT to be a 'supporter' of an LGBT supporters group - are you suggesting that you don't have to be LGBT to be a member of the group, because I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a requirement that you are LGBT to be in their group, otherwise it isn't really an LGBT group, it's just a group. Perhaps I have misunderstood you and you are saying anyone can 'support' the LGBT supporters group, but that is fairly obvious and doesn't really need pointing out.

o-no wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:12 pm Dunno about the entrance exam. Maybe

I don't know whether these groups that represent specific interests welcome people who identify themselves as not being in that cohort. Sure, it would be more inclusive but then it waters down the whole point of having a separate group. What if a ton of people who aren't in the natural group join, it could cease to be representative of the interest that it was setup for.

But in reality, why would anyone join a group they're not affiliated with when plenty of generic supporters groups exist - it's not like it's that specific interest O's group or nothing, so I'd completely understand if the special interest groups pushed back on welcoming supporters who aren't aligned to some degree with their interests.

Would be interesting to know from someone involved if this happens, or is even an issue.