Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:49 pm**

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:28 pm
gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:38 pm
Lucky7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:34 pm well thankfully because of promotion we can keep the academy rolling and hopefully they will be more young players that can be weened at Leyton Orient then go on to better things we are acselling club always have been and every now and then we have a product to sell
So we can sell them at 18 years old for £20k each, Norwich and co must be laughing at our naivety
I wouldn’t expect anything less than negativity from you long may it continue

Is selling all our best players a positive ?

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:49 pm**

He's going to be a fantastic player. Wouldn't surprise me to see him in the Premier League in the next 3 or 4 years if he carries on progressing at the rate he's going at.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:55 pm**

I agree Happe will definitely play at a higher level but it would be nice if we didn't sell anymore of our best players until we've consolidated ourselves back in the EFL.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:01 pm**

Soft touch is about right,OK you are going to loose players but you have to replace them with good players,we should have enough money to bring some good ones in,we donot really how much we are getting for our young players but if you get 200k half should go back in for a replacement,big clubs or clubs should be told to dig in deep or take a running jump and clear off,if he goes its least 3/4 players gone.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:07 pm**

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:19 pm I called that in the Judd thread he'd be next. Leicester makes sense as it looks increasingly like McGuire will be leaving.

Soon its gonna be like will the last one out please turn off the lights.

I will be gutted if him and Judd leave and I'd have to question the owners if this happens. People questioned their commitment to our youth system last season and I defended them. I've played long enough and high enough to know how this game works, but selling potentially your four best young players is madness.

Losing Justin (may God rest his soul) has or may truly desimate this football club. What comes next will determine if those words given by the owners about his legacy will be matched by their actions and deeds.

I'm seriously starting to get p*ssed off.

Bit of an exaggeration to say it will soon be "last one out please turn off the lights".

Don't think we can question the owners at all if a big club comes in for a good fee and he wants to go. We would be selling him based on his potential ability rather than current ability. So if we sold him and either brought him back on loan as it suggests or brought in a replacement of equal ability but lower potential it wouldn't be a sign of no ambition. Especially as I figure that we might get a worse deal from a tribunal next summer.

I'll also repeat what I said about squad churn and it might be better to phase in some players that were not coached by Edinburgh last season.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:20 pm**

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:28 pm
gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:38 pm
Lucky7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:34 pm well thankfully because of promotion we can keep the academy rolling and hopefully they will be more young players that can be weened at Leyton Orient then go on to better things we are acselling club always have been and every now and then we have a product to sell
So we can sell them at 18 years old for £20k each, Norwich and co must be laughing at our naivety
I wouldn’t expect anything less than negativity from you long may it continue

That's the reality, pretend it isn't the case if you want but won't stop it happening.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:30 pm**

Just wondering if we didn’t have an academy or a youth set up would we be doing jumble sales every other week to try balance the books the best we could

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:31 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:20 pm
Lucky7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:28 pm
gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:38 pm

So we can sell them at 18 years old for £20k each, Norwich and co must be laughing at our naivety
I wouldn’t expect anything less than negativity from you long may it continue
That's the reality, pretend it isn't the case if you want but won't stop it happening.

I call it business nothing more nothing less

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:35 pm**

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:19 pm I called that in the Judd thread he'd be next. Leicester makes sense as it looks increasingly like McGuire will be leaving.

There is absolutely no way that he is going to straight from non league to play in the Prem.

I have my doubts that he ever will as I feel that his lack of pace would be greatly exposed at the top level.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:46 pm**

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:30 pm Just wondering if we didn’t have an academy or a youth set up would we be doing jumble sales every other week to try balance the books the best we could

Would love to see the numbers for cost of running the academy vs. money brought in from the couple of successes we get once every 5 years or so.

Brentford did the math and closed it down so I wonder how ours can be turning a profit in comparison. Similarly with good scouting you can find equivalent players released at 20-21 without the costs of training them from the age of 15.

Then it begs the question, should the club lose money i.e. be unsustainable just to keep up the "community" image? I say not but doesn't seem a popular opinion.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:50 pm**

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:57 pm I would say it’s exceedingly rare for a club to get promoted and start the season much weaker than the season before. We are that club currently and certainly if we lose Happe and Judd. Oh joy. That’s the orient we know and love. I don’t care if all our young players want to better themselves and leave but for F sake, spend a few hundred grand on a really good central midfield player.

That will not be happening, bargin bin for us I'm afraid.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:51 pm**

If Happe goes for a million that’s £1.5 million from the academy in the space of 2 weeks. Add to that that there’s no way we’d have got promoted out of that hell hole without all those youth players I’d say the Academy has paid its way for the next decade at least

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:52 pm**

I don’t want to see players like Happe who I’ve always rated leave, but come on you have to be real and if he can triple ,maybe quadruple his wages, and contractually could walk away on a free in a year then we must capitalize and do the same to clubs lower down the food chain as we did with. Ekpiteta. Fortunately we are rich in central defenders and would have 3 established players along with an emerging ogie who I really rate.
f

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:56 pm**

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:55 pm I agree Happe will definitely play at a higher level but it would be nice if we didn't sell anymore of our best players until we've consolidated ourselves back in the EFL.

Exactly this.

I also believe that if JE was still with us not one of those players would have left this season. Next maybe, probably, but they'd have all been on the bus for the journey out of league 2 this coming season. His loss cannot be underestimated for this clubs future in the short term at least (not forgetting his families loss either of course)

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:58 pm**

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:35 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:19 pm I called that in the Judd thread he'd be next. Leicester makes sense as it looks increasingly like McGuire will be leaving.

There is absolutely no way that he is going to straight from non league to play in the Prem.

I have my doubts that he ever will as I feel that his lack of pace would be greatly exposed at the top level.

It didn't stop John Terry having a good career did it? Also top clubs have been known to employee sprint coaches to cover off such players lack of speed over short distances.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:04 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:46 pm
Lucky7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:30 pm Just wondering if we didn’t have an academy or a youth set up would we be doing jumble sales every other week to try balance the books the best we could
Would love to see the numbers for cost of running the academy vs. money brought in from the couple of successes we get once every 5 years or so.

Brentford did the math and closed it down so I wonder how ours can be turning a profit in comparison. Similarly with good scouting you can find equivalent players released at 20-21 without the costs of training them from the age of 15.

Then it begs the question, should the club lose money i.e. be unsustainable just to keep up the "community" image? I say not but doesn't seem a popular opinion.

Don't forget all this started under Hearn and the development of the kids. We've been selling loads to premier clubs for quite sometime now mostly at the 14/15/16 age group. So from that perspective it's been quite prolific in finding talent. Probably still delivering cash through add ons and sell on fees etc.

I guess that's why we get so attached to the kids coming through as they are Orient through and through.

I'm not saying we can't sell anyone or that no one should better themselves it just the timing of all this happening. We as a club have been to hell and back, and JE delivered like no one had delivered in a very long time and just as you can sense we are going in the right direction and forwards in a positive manner we lose the beat thing to happen to us since Bloomfield. Now we are losing all our best players.

Gutted is not coming close as to how I feel this summer.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:09 pm**

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:58 pm
Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:35 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:19 pm I called that in the Judd thread he'd be next. Leicester makes sense as it looks increasingly like McGuire will be leaving.

There is absolutely no way that he is going to straight from non league to play in the Prem.

I have my doubts that he ever will as I feel that his lack of pace would be greatly exposed at the top level.
It didn't stop John Terry having a good career did it? Also top clubs have been known to employee sprint coaches to cover off such players lack of speed over short distances.

Happe is no John Terry.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:10 pm**

Maybe he's not, but pace is pretty similar, that's the point I was making.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:21 pm**

Shame to lose players but that’s life. We want good young players but when we get them bigger clubs will come along and help themselves. All we can do is try to benefit from them in the team as long as we can then make some cash when they move on.

Losing talented youngsters ain’t a lack of ambition but an acceptance of the way it is.

We need to get over it an move on, by scouting good young players from NL or developing in house.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:54 pm**

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:21 pm Shame to lose players but that’s life. We want good young players but when we get them bigger clubs will come along and help themselves. All we can do is try to benefit from them in the team as long as we can then make some cash when they move on.

Losing talented youngsters ain’t a lack of ambition but an acceptance of the way it is.

We need to get over it an move on, by scouting good young players from NL or developing in house.

Agreed, if we do lose Happe then we just need to look further down the ‘food chain’ and try to find the next Ekpiteta, as they must out there somewhere.
We’re no different to most clubs who have sell our best players when the bigger clubs come calling.
Of course, it’s not nice but it’s a fact of life.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:56 pm**

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:04 pm
I'm not saying we can't sell anyone or that no one should better themselves it just the timing of all this happening. We as a club have been to hell and back, and JE delivered like no one had delivered in a very long time and just as you can sense we are going in the right direction and forwards in a positive manner we lose the beat thing to happen to us since Bloomfield. Now we are losing all our best players.

Gutted is not coming close as to how I feel this summer.

Yeah I know exactly what you mean. In 2014 it felt like we'd missed the chance of a generation to hit the dizzy heights of the Championship but with JE felt like we'd really unearthed something special at Orient and we were ready to take on the world. That feels a long time ago already

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:57 pm**

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:04 pm
gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:46 pm
Lucky7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:30 pm Just wondering if we didn’t have an academy or a youth set up would we be doing jumble sales every other week to try balance the books the best we could
Would love to see the numbers for cost of running the academy vs. money brought in from the couple of successes we get once every 5 years or so.

Brentford did the math and closed it down so I wonder how ours can be turning a profit in comparison. Similarly with good scouting you can find equivalent players released at 20-21 without the costs of training them from the age of 15.

Then it begs the question, should the club lose money i.e. be unsustainable just to keep up the "community" image? I say not but doesn't seem a popular opinion.
Don't forget all this started under Hearn and the development of the kids. We've been selling loads to premier clubs for quite sometime now mostly at the 14/15/16 age group. So from that perspective it's been quite prolific in finding talent. Probably still delivering cash through add ons and sell on fees etc.

I guess that's why we get so attached to the kids coming through as they are Orient through and through.

I'm not saying we can't sell anyone or that no one should better themselves it just the timing of all this happening. We as a club have been to hell and back, and JE delivered like no one had delivered in a very long time and just as you can sense we are going in the right direction and forwards in a positive manner we lose the beat thing to happen to us since Bloomfield. Now we are losing all our best players.

Gutted is not coming close as to how I feel this summer.

Beg to differ
There has been youth teams at Leyton Orient well before Barry Hearn appeared

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:10 pm**

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:30 pm Just wondering if we didn’t have an academy or a youth set up would we be doing jumble sales every other week to try balance the books the best we could

Great idea, get on it Macklin.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:13 pm**

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:57 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:04 pm
gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:46 pm

Would love to see the numbers for cost of running the academy vs. money brought in from the couple of successes we get once every 5 years or so.

Brentford did the math and closed it down so I wonder how ours can be turning a profit in comparison. Similarly with good scouting you can find equivalent players released at 20-21 without the costs of training them from the age of 15.

Then it begs the question, should the club lose money i.e. be unsustainable just to keep up the "community" image? I say not but doesn't seem a popular opinion.
Don't forget all this started under Hearn and the development of the kids. We've been selling loads to premier clubs for quite sometime now mostly at the 14/15/16 age group. So from that perspective it's been quite prolific in finding talent. Probably still delivering cash through add ons and sell on fees etc.

I guess that's why we get so attached to the kids coming through as they are Orient through and through.

I'm not saying we can't sell anyone or that no one should better themselves it just the timing of all this happening. We as a club have been to hell and back, and JE delivered like no one had delivered in a very long time and just as you can sense we are going in the right direction and forwards in a positive manner we lose the beat thing to happen to us since Bloomfield. Now we are losing all our best players.

Gutted is not coming close as to how I feel this summer.
Beg to differ
There has been youth teams at Leyton Orient well before Barry Hearn appeared

Never said there wasn't, I was part of it at one time. The point I was making the production line started up big time around the beginning of slade times. We are and have been seeing the benefit of that decision this past few years.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:18 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:07 pm Im sick of people saying " if they want to further themselves, you cant stop them" Oh yes you can !

You say no....like Hearn did when Slade wanted to talk to Barnsley

Ultimately the owners duty is to Leyton Orient, not to further the career of young men.

We really are a soft touch.....any club comes knocking we just sell them our best players

Like Thor, Im also getting very pi55ed off now

You do realise it's Leyton Orient and not Real Madrid.

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