Independent Leyton Orient Forum

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 11:07 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 9:52 pm I would think it's more likely that Putin will arm the Houthis with more sophisticated/longer range missiles in the Yemen and they will start to try taking out oil tankers and possibly military ships in the straits of Oman rather than Russia launch a direct attack on NATO. Despite all his rhetoric he knows that getting involved directly with NATO will only end badly, he will bide his time and wait for Trump. Sooner or later there will have to be negotiations for a peace settlement.

I agree . In the end there will need to be an negotiated settlement . Can people honestly say they can see Ukraine winning this war because I can't . There is absolutely no way Putin will ever accept defeat . Biden giving permission to launch American long range missiles into Russia is another step towards further escalation. The Russians insist that these long range missiles can only work with the help of NATO satellites . They said that this would mean NATO's direct involvement in the war. My fear is Putin will use a tactical nuke on Kyiv rather than lose the war . Incidentally a tactical nuke is considered to be the size of the Hiroshima bomb .

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:21 am But that was weeks ago.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:38 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 11:07 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 9:52 pm I would think it's more likely that Putin will arm the Houthis with more sophisticated/longer range missiles in the Yemen and they will start to try taking out oil tankers and possibly military ships in the straits of Oman rather than Russia launch a direct attack on NATO. Despite all his rhetoric he knows that getting involved directly with NATO will only end badly, he will bide his time and wait for Trump. Sooner or later there will have to be negotiations for a peace settlement.

I agree . In the end there will need to be an negotiated settlement . Can people honestly say they can see Ukraine winning this war because I can't . There is absolutely no way Putin will ever accept defeat . Biden giving permission to launch American long range missiles into Russia is another step towards further escalation. The Russians insist that these long range missiles can only work with the help of NATO satellites . They said that this would mean NATO's direct involvement in the war. My fear is Putin will use a tactical nuke on Kyiv rather than lose the war . Incidentally a tactical nuke is considered to be the size of the Hiroshima bomb .

Why do people keep saying this?
So we should never have any wars, only negotiations? How bleedin woke of you.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:59 am So if Russia invade any country it should just be accepted and negotiated?

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:06 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:59 am So if Russia invade any country it should just be accepted and negotiated?

OK then nuke them .

Pugwash wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:15 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:06 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:59 am So if Russia invade any country it should just be accepted and negotiated?

OK then nuke them .

Need a Mad leader to do that, oh hang on Trumps in charge from January threatening China who are Russias closest ally with 60% tariffs. What could possibly go wrong?

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:31 am

Pugwash wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:15 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:06 am

OK then nuke them .

Need a Mad leader to do that, oh hang on Trumps in charge from January threatening China who are Russias closest ally with 60% tariffs. What could possibly go wrong?

That's assuming we get to January thanks Joe 'Biden

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:29 am FFS.

Neither Russia nor the US/allies are going to use nukes on each other. Every time the Kremlin (or it's Western-based shills) threatens that a Western state's actions or intentions risks a serious escalation, it's always a bluff. Because that's all they have.

Even if Russia was minded to use one, I doubt even they trust that their maintenance regime over the years will have been sufficient to guarantee against the weapon detonating at the point of being fired.

Spot the trend. The following is just a short list of things the West has done, which Putin and Kremlin shills warned would lead to serious escalation (including the use of nukes). The threat never materialises because, for all their rantings, the Kremlin isn't stuffed with idiots.

- Sending any weapons to Ukraine
- Sending MANPADS/ATGMs to Ukraine
- Sending former Soviet tanks
- Sending HIMARS
- Sending parts for former Soviet jets
- Sending western tanks
- Sending ATACMS
- Sending Stormshadow/Scalp
- Letting Ukraine strike Crimea
- Letting Ukraine strike Russia with their domestic weapons
- Letting Ukraine have incursions into Russia
- Sending jets to Ukraine
- Letting Ukraine fire ATACMS at Russian air bases

This latest decision is not that big a deal. All it does is extend Ukraine's reach into the Russian homeland by approximately 180 miles. This is about improving Ukraine's capability to defend it's Kursk invasion so to provide it with some leverage at future negotiations.

I'm not saying there are no reasons to be concerned - there are. But this latest decision or the threatening of nuclear war isn't one of them.

Pugwash wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:33 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:31 am

Pugwash wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:15 am

Need a Mad leader to do that, oh hang on Trumps in charge from January threatening China who are Russias closest ally with 60% tariffs. What could possibly go wrong?

That's assuming we get to January thanks Joe 'Biden

Bidens not threatening to use Nukes Mate.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:36 am

Pugwash wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:33 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:31 am

That's assuming we get to January thanks Joe 'Biden

Bidens not threatening to use Nukes Mate.

No but he's escalating things . The stupid old duffer .

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:29 am
- Sending MANPADS

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:29 am FFS.

Neither Russia nor the US/allies are going to use nukes on each other. Every time the Kremlin (or it's Western-based shills) threatens that a Western state's actions or intentions risks a serious escalation, it's always a bluff. Because that's all they have.

Even if Russia was minded to use one, I doubt even they trust that their maintenance regime over the years will have been sufficient to guarantee against the weapon detonating at the point of being fired.

Spot the trend. The following is just a short list of things the West has done, which Putin and Kremlin shills warned would lead to serious escalation (including the use of nukes). The threat never materialises because, for all their rantings, the Kremlin isn't stuffed with idiots.

- Sending any weapons to Ukraine
- Sending MANPADS/ATGMs to Ukraine
- Sending former Soviet tanks
- Sending HIMARS
- Sending parts for former Soviet jets
- Sending western tanks
- Sending ATACMS
- Sending Stormshadow/Scalp
- Letting Ukraine strike Crimea
- Letting Ukraine strike Russia with their domestic weapons
- Letting Ukraine have incursions into Russia
- Sending jets to Ukraine
- Letting Ukraine fire ATACMS at Russian air bases

This latest decision is not that big a deal. All it does is extend Ukraine's reach into the Russian homeland by approximately 180 miles. This is about improving Ukraine's capability to defend it's Kursk invasion so to provide it with some leverage at future negotiations.

I'm not saying there are no reasons to be concerned - there are. But this latest decision or the threatening of nuclear war isn't one of them.

Pugwash wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:40 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:36 am

Pugwash wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:33 am

Bidens not threatening to use Nukes Mate.

No but he's escalating things . The stupid old duffer .

Escalating is invading a Sovereign State! Stupid old duffers are Ten a penny.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:56 am

Pugwash wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:40 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:36 am

No but he's escalating things . The stupid old duffer .

Escalating is invading a Sovereign State! Stupid old duffers are Ten a penny.

indeed . I'm not defending Putin for one second . The bloke is a paranoid Cnut who has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands on both sides .

Pugwash wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:59 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:56 am

Pugwash wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:40 am

Escalating is invading a Sovereign State! Stupid old duffers are Ten a penny.

indeed . I'm not defending Putin for one second . The bloke is a paranoid Cnut who has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands on both sides .

Yeah, Trump loves him though

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:59 am So if Russia invade any country it should just be accepted and negotiated?

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 10:04 am

Pugwash wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:59 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:56 am

indeed . I'm not defending Putin for one second . The bloke is a paranoid Cnut who has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands on both sides .

Yeah, Trump loves him though

I wouldn't say that . He previously got along with him but is that a bad thing if Trump is somehow going to bring about a ceasefire . This war has to end .

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:06 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:59 am So if Russia invade any country it should just be accepted and negotiated?

OK then nuke them .

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 10:16 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 9:06 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:59 am So if Russia invade any country it should just be accepted and negotiated?

OK then nuke them .

Is that the only other option? Nuke them or appeasement?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 10:46 am Pre 1st or 2nd invasion border?