Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:37 pm

Admin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:17 pm Ok. So you agree that the Tories basically dealt with disunity by removing anyone with any sense of independent thought. Does that represent leadership for you?

Given the Tories handling of Covid 19 are you still content that Boris was the best of a bad bunch?

Oh and by the way, I’m no slavering Corbynite. I’m a left winger for sure but can quite easily recognise the sainted JC’s failings.

Political parties remove people, businesses remove people. Even football teams move people on who just don’t fit (Fletcher). It happens, to be replaced by young men who have changed direction to fit the new role (Ross).

Personally I don’t believe Corbyn/Abbott etc would have handled the Pandemic any better. A YouGov poll, for what it’s worth, from fading memory suggest 57% thought he would handle it worse. But that is not proof, just perception and could be wrong. Don’t know and don’t care tbh. Nor do I believe our preparedness would have been better.

Though I can say with all honesty I would have cut Corbyn the same slack (any PM) as I afford Johnson solely on the basis of the size and complexity of the issue. Especially as I look around the world at others. A shitefest. There will be time for a reckoning and a chance for Starmer to show his worth. Now that I will find very interesting.

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:45 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:37 pm

Admin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:17 pm Ok. So you agree that the Tories basically dealt with disunity by removing anyone with any sense of independent thought. Does that represent leadership for you?

Given the Tories handling of Covid 19 are you still content that Boris was the best of a bad bunch?

Oh and by the way, I’m no slavering Corbynite. I’m a left winger for sure but can quite easily recognise the sainted JC’s failings.

Political parties remove people, businesses remove people. Even football teams move people on who just don’t fit (Fletcher). It happens, to be replaced by young men who have changed direction to fit the new role (Ross).

Personally I don’t believe Corbyn/Abbott etc would have handled the Pandemic any better. A YouGov poll, for what it’s worth, from fading memory suggest 57% thought he would handle it worse. But that is not proof, just perception and could be wrong. Don’t know and don’t care tbh. Nor do I believe our preparedness would have been better.

Though I can say with all honesty I would have cut Corbyn the same slack (any PM) as I afford Johnson solely on the basis of the size and complexity of the issue. Especially as I look around the world at others. A shitefest. There will be time for a reckoning and a chance for Starmer to show his worth. Now that I will find very interesting.

I think (one of) the points you've missed here though Dohnut is that does good leadership not need the confidence to have those that disagree with you around you? Corbyn at least did that in his shadow cabinets. The Tories have been culling those that think for themselves for a long time.

Is that leadership? Should groupthink really be a preferred way forward? (Another issue with people being desperate for centrism).

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:45 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:37 pm

Admin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:17 pm Ok. So you agree that the Tories basically dealt with disunity by removing anyone with any sense of independent thought. Does that represent leadership for you?

Given the Tories handling of Covid 19 are you still content that Boris was the best of a bad bunch?

Oh and by the way, I’m no slavering Corbynite. I’m a left winger for sure but can quite easily recognise the sainted JC’s failings.

Political parties remove people, businesses remove people. Even football teams move people on who just don’t fit (Fletcher). It happens, to be replaced by young men who have changed direction to fit the new role (Ross).

Personally I don’t believe Corbyn/Abbott etc would have handled the Pandemic any better. A YouGov poll, for what it’s worth, from fading memory suggest 57% thought he would handle it worse. But that is not proof, just perception and could be wrong. Don’t know and don’t care tbh. Nor do I believe our preparedness would have been better.

Though I can say with all honesty I would have cut Corbyn the same slack (any PM) as I afford Johnson solely on the basis of the size and complexity of the issue. Especially as I look around the world at others. A shitefest. There will be time for a reckoning and a chance for Starmer to show his worth. Now that I will find very interesting.

I think (one of) the points you've missed here though Dohnut is that does good leadership not need the confidence to have those that disagree with you around you? Corbyn at least did that in his shadow cabinets. The Tories have been culling those that think for themselves for a long time.

Is that leadership? Should groupthink really be a preferred way forward? (Another issue with people being desperate for centrism).

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:23 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:45 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:37 pm

Political parties remove people, businesses remove people. Even football teams move people on who just don’t fit (Fletcher). It happens, to be replaced by young men who have changed direction to fit the new role (Ross).

Personally I don’t believe Corbyn/Abbott etc would have handled the Pandemic any better. A YouGov poll, for what it’s worth, from fading memory suggest 57% thought he would handle it worse. But that is not proof, just perception and could be wrong. Don’t know and don’t care tbh. Nor do I believe our preparedness would have been better.

Though I can say with all honesty I would have cut Corbyn the same slack (any PM) as I afford Johnson solely on the basis of the size and complexity of the issue. Especially as I look around the world at others. A shitefest. There will be time for a reckoning and a chance for Starmer to show his worth. Now that I will find very interesting.

I think (one of) the points you've missed here though Dohnut is that does good leadership not need the confidence to have those that disagree with you around you? Corbyn at least did that in his shadow cabinets. The Tories have been culling those that think for themselves for a long time.

Is that leadership? Should groupthink really be a preferred way forward? (Another issue with people being desperate for centrism).

Do believe you've just described Cabinet Collective Responsibility there old boy

Part of the reason JC had people that disagreed with him in his shadow cabinet was, even after he's promoted all his mates (which led to people like Burgon getting jobs beyond their abilities) there still would have been unfilled positions due to his unpopularity with the PLP

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:29 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:23 pm

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:45 pm

I think (one of) the points you've missed here though Dohnut is that does good leadership not need the confidence to have those that disagree with you around you? Corbyn at least did that in his shadow cabinets. The Tories have been culling those that think for themselves for a long time.

Is that leadership? Should groupthink really be a preferred way forward? (Another issue with people being desperate for centrism).

Do believe you've just described Cabinet Collective Responsibility there old boy

Part of the reason JC had people that disagreed with him in his shadow cabinet was, even after he's promoted all his mates (which led to people like Burgon getting jobs beyond their abilities) there still would have been unfilled positions due to his unpopularity with the PLP

And how do those cabinet positions come around?

Has he orchestrated a robust and broad culture of wide ranging opinions? Nah. Most don't from both sides, but these lot have been particularly bad at it.

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:13 pm You don't even disagree with me. Stop wasting the internet.

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:16 pmSo is PO max?

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:31 am

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:16 pmSo is PO max?

Him and Conkles haven't been posting much since the alias started

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:43 am The fish fingers? Is that a euphemism for the cabinet?

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:34 pm Boris the narcissists’ narcissist flails wildly as PMQs exposes cracks

The PM can dump wives, mistresses, ministers and friends but he just can’t get rid of Keir Starmer!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ses-cracks

Boris Johnson's PMQs is like a Columbo episode and Keir Starmer has just one more question:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... o-22245828

Johnson today was an utter joke; expertly dissected by Starmer QC.

If only there was a freezer in the House of Commons - the Etonian Spaffer would have been hiding inside of it, alongside the fish fingers.

Johnson the was clearly on the ropes, he even pulled a silly face (or two)........so no change there then!

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:54 pm Fine PR work from Nadim Zahawi this morning on Radio 4. Although I suspect this could well be some more Trumpian style distraction going on "don't look at the dodgy minister there, come and laugh at the imbecile over here"

Either that or he is just thick as mince.

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:54 pm Fine PR work from Nadim Zahawi this morning on Radio 4. Although I suspect this could well be some more Trumpian style distraction going on "don't look at the dodgy minister there, come and laugh at the imbecile over here"

Either that or he is just thick as mince.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true

HeyO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:56 pm

Admin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:54 pm Fine PR work from Nadim Zahawi this morning on Radio 4. Although I suspect this could well be some more Trumpian style distraction going on "don't look at the dodgy minister there, come and laugh at the imbecile over here"

Either that or he is just thick as mince.

Pork or beef?