Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:56 pm**

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:13 pm
Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:41 pm OK, maybe the wrong word, mentality.
The whole team knitting together and with the confidence and will to win character that good teams have. (Ie:going a goal down, and turning the game around - something we never do). One player is not going to change all that - not even Adams.
'something we never do', he says three games into a league season where we've only gone behind once, following a championship winning year where we did all the time.

We have 4 points from the first three games, one more than we had this time last season. Can tone down the fatalism a touch.

If someone says, 'we never' about anything, it doesn't mean never ever been. And it doesn't mean individual results, it means over a period of time. Use a bit of insight and common sense. We haven't had teams with flair and character that can turn games around or pull off shock results since the Slade era.

Posted: **Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:57 pm**

But we've been playing Ling/Turley/Judd and Widdowson out of position for almost half a season now.... none of them have been good at wing-back overall and done the things good wing-backs do, because they are not wing-backs.

So putting in Marsh there would mean he is out of position a little, but Ling and Widdowson benefit from being back to their best positions.

I wouldn't have gone like this against Stevenage, but against a better side it could be a good thing to have a defensive minded midfielder out wide. JMD and Brophy as the two wingers I think is too much in a game we are not expected to dominate, not enough defensive skills between them.

I think it's too early to change things up but if Marsh turns out good, it gives us the flexibility to do so.

Posted: **Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:22 pm**

I don't dislike Ling/Judd ; Coulson ; Ekpiteta ; Widdowson at the back
Nor do I dislike the Clay ; Wright ; Brophy trio
Apart from Wright, the backbone of our side last season. I see no reason why they shouldn't get a decent chance this season. Far too early to be talking about dropping Clay and totally unfair imo
Angol and Wilkerson up front.

So if Marsh is to start the only place is right side of midfield. On the basis of what I read, he is comfortable in midfield and can cover at right back so despite not being his natural position its one he should be capable of handling. Of course I could be wrong, but it don't seem too far fetched.

Happe being the one to lose out.

Posted: **Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:23 pm**

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:56 pm
Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:13 pm
Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:41 pm OK, maybe the wrong word, mentality.
The whole team knitting together and with the confidence and will to win character that good teams have. (Ie:going a goal down, and turning the game around - something we never do). One player is not going to change all that - not even Adams.
'something we never do', he says three games into a league season where we've only gone behind once, following a championship winning year where we did all the time.

We have 4 points from the first three games, one more than we had this time last season. Can tone down the fatalism a touch.
If someone says, 'we never' about anything, it doesn't mean never ever been. And it doesn't mean individual results, it means over a period of time. Use a bit of insight and common sense. We haven't had teams with flair and character that can turn games around or pull off shock results since the Slade era.

Did you go to the Eastleigh or Sutton games at the end of last season?

Posted: **Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:38 pm**

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:56 pm
Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:13 pm
Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:41 pm OK, maybe the wrong word, mentality.
The whole team knitting together and with the confidence and will to win character that good teams have. (Ie:going a goal down, and turning the game around - something we never do). One player is not going to change all that - not even Adams.
'something we never do', he says three games into a league season where we've only gone behind once, following a championship winning year where we did all the time.

We have 4 points from the first three games, one more than we had this time last season. Can tone down the fatalism a touch.
If someone says, 'we never' about anything, it doesn't mean never ever been. And it doesn't mean individual results, it means over a period of time. Use a bit of insight and common sense. We haven't had teams with flair and character that can turn games around or pull off shock results since the Slade era.

When teams are top of the league for so long, what exactly qualifies as a shock result? Losing was a shock but taking points wasn't so no, the team last season didn't pull off shock results. winning was normality never a shock.

As far as turning things around last seasons team were as resilient as I can remember and their never say die attitude was extraordinary. It remains to be seen if the same character exists this term. If it does we will be OK

Posted: **Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:38 pm**

Well, I disagree with that. I thought we scrambled through many games.

Posted: **Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:04 pm**

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:38 pm Well, I disagree with that. I thought we scrambled through many games.

I think you're a bit confused. What is the point you are trying to make? Scrambling through a game, and coming from behind in a game will often look like the same thing.

Posted: **Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:07 pm**

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:04 pm
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:52 pm
eagwgw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:45 pm To be fair Russell Slade did ok with a lop-sided 4-4-2 for a bit.

If this Marsh guy is as tenacious and hard-working as billed it might not be bad. Almost certainly he will have good technical ability.

Words are cheap though. Dale Gorman was called combative and tenacious by the Stevenage site and he is neither really.
TBF, he probably was before Dale broke his ankle and he's not been the same since . I've often wondered if whether Dale is playing with a fear factor that it might happen again and that's why he's been known to bottle tackles . He bottled two last Saturday . If that's the case, he's got to get it out of his head because it's holding him back .I don't know, it's only just a thought.
Don’t think it’s that.

Gormans tackling isn’t his issue, it’s his ball retention and decision making, he’s always trying something too difficult and giving the ball away.

Maybe he’s just not that good which is why perennial L2 strugglers Stevenage let him go?

Gorman asked to be released at Stevenage, he had just broken his ankle against Coventry in the weeks prior. I saw him play a number of times and he can tackle, take set pieces, was a box to box player and he can score. He has played many international games at underage level. Ipswich tried to sign him a number of years back under Mick McCarthy after he got man of the match in a league cup game victory over Ipswich and his old manager from Northern Ireland tried to sign him for Motherwell at the same time that he decided that Leyton was the move for him. Other teams were in for him too so he had plenty of options. I'm sure Jobi and Lee recommended him as they played with him at Stevenage. Now, perhaps he has some fear about tackling since the injury (as he used to pick up many bookings at Stevenage), perhaps he has been trying too hard but one thing is for sure he will give 100% and at least he will always try and get involved. Give him time and support him and he will be a player once he gets the confidence back. He needs regular game time. He needs players that want the ball. He needs width in midfield to give him options.

If you look at this team from the last few months of last year, the team has not been playing lovely flowing attacking football. We should have won on Saturday, I don't know how one of those efforts on the double save wasn't put away. The highlights were piss poor. Anyway, we are only 3 points from the top of the league. Onwards and upwards.

Posted: **Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:08 pm**

Hi, Mrs Gorman.

Posted: **Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:12 pm**

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:08 pm Hi, Mrs Gorman.

Cheers.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:32 am**

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:56 pm
Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:13 pm
Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:41 pm OK, maybe the wrong word, mentality.
The whole team knitting together and with the confidence and will to win character that good teams have. (Ie:going a goal down, and turning the game around - something we never do). One player is not going to change all that - not even Adams.
'something we never do', he says three games into a league season where we've only gone behind once, following a championship winning year where we did all the time.

We have 4 points from the first three games, one more than we had this time last season. Can tone down the fatalism a touch.
If someone says, 'we never' about anything, it doesn't mean never ever been. And it doesn't mean individual results, it means over a period of time. Use a bit of insight and common sense. We haven't had teams with flair and character that can turn games around or pull off shock results since the Slade era.

But we won the league last year. Saying that team lacked character is plain asinine, the team had it in spades. Use a bit of insight and common sense.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:55 am**

Saying the side who ground out a League title 'lacked character' is an astonishing take.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:59 am**

When he said never, he obviously didn’t mean last season.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:19 am**

Didn't see any away games last term. Saw most at home and for the majority we were dire. In a football sense 'character' can be interchangeable. You can say that we had character, I suppose, by clinging on to games and grinding out results. Nothing like the character we had in the Slade era (and I'm not calling for his return either) and nearly always the feeling that we wouldn't get beat. Chalk and cheese. League one as well, not national.
Can't make up your own lines, mista...

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:26 am**

RoryRocks wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:07 pm
CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:04 pm
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:52 pm

TBF, he probably was before Dale broke his ankle and he's not been the same since . I've often wondered if whether Dale is playing with a fear factor that it might happen again and that's why he's been known to bottle tackles . He bottled two last Saturday . If that's the case, he's got to get it out of his head because it's holding him back .I don't know, it's only just a thought.
Don’t think it’s that.

Gormans tackling isn’t his issue, it’s his ball retention and decision making, he’s always trying something too difficult and giving the ball away.

Maybe he’s just not that good which is why perennial L2 strugglers Stevenage let him go?
Gorman asked to be released at Stevenage, he had just broken his ankle against Coventry in the weeks prior. I saw him play a number of times and he can tackle, take set pieces, was a box to box player and he can score. He has played many international games at underage level. Ipswich tried to sign him a number of years back under Mick McCarthy after he got man of the match in a league cup game victory over Ipswich and his old manager from Northern Ireland tried to sign him for Motherwell at the same time that he decided that Leyton was the move for him. Other teams were in for him too so he had plenty of options. I'm sure Jobi and Lee recommended him as they played with him at Stevenage. Now, perhaps he has some fear about tackling since the injury (as he used to pick up many bookings at Stevenage), perhaps he has been trying too hard but one thing is for sure he will give 100% and at least he will always try and get involved. Give him time and support him and he will be a player once he gets the confidence back. He needs regular game time. He needs players that want the ball. He needs width in midfield to give him options.

If you look at this team from the last few months of last year, the team has not been playing lovely flowing attacking football. We should have won on Saturday, I don't know how one of those efforts on the double save wasn't put away. The highlights were p*ss poor. Anyway, we are only 3 points from the top of the league. Onwards and upwards.

He bottled two challenges whilst only being on the pitch about ten minutes. One lead to a counter attack and the corner that they almost scored from.

Not for me. If you really want to battle for a starting place, you smash anyone in your way there.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:32 am**

Literally no idea how you can say that the character of last season wasn’t good enough. A squad which shouldn’t have had enough to win the league title did. And that was all because of their character. The Sutton away game says it all - watch Salford breeze to a 3-0 win in the televised morning kick off, change formation early on because of injuries, go behind to a b*stard team we’ve consistently struggled against , get back into the game only to see Dayton have his leg broken and sent off, then go on to secure a last minute winner despite being a man down. And you question their character?

Yet bizarrely rave about a side that choked in the league then threw away a 2-0 half time lead in the play off final?

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:34 am**

Agreed. It was our character, including that of JE, which won us the title last season despite a deficient squad.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:47 am**

Knew you would come back on that one. You love the old quoting. I'm not going into the ins and out with you picking out instances from certain games.Dayton and all that, broken leg, coming back to win, blah, blah. You either see it in the big picture what I'm saying, or you don't, and quite obviously you don't.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:50 am**

I see the big picture; that of a group of players who should have been top 7 based on ability, going on to win the league because of their character.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:51 am**

Why is CCH still digging?

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:15 am**

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:50 am I see the big picture; that of a group of players who should have been top 7 based on ability, going on to win the league because of their character.

Well, no matter how l you stretch this out, we are not going to agree. (unless you use your imagination)
So what do you suggest. A duel before the game this Saturday to prove who is right?

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:55 am**

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:51 am Why is CCH still digging?

Because he's never wrong about anything and there's plenty of hours in the day to accuse everyone else of twisting things.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:04 pm**

CCH's back must be aching from moving those goalposts so much

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:38 pm**

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:15 am
CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:50 am I see the big picture; that of a group of players who should have been top 7 based on ability, going on to win the league because of their character.
Well, no matter how l you stretch this out, we are not going to agree. (unless you use your imagination)
So what do you suggest. A duel before the game this Saturday to prove who is right?

You could just say you got it wrong.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:09 pm**

There's a gulf of difference between last seasons 'character' and the 'character' of a team I'm talking about. (the Slade season). So it's you that has it wrong for stubbornly refusing to use your imagination.

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