Austerity / Economy

[LittleMate]

When did this happen?

1970's

The decade which saw the lowest wealth inequality.

And saw the lowest growth period in GDP since WW2.

[Currywurst and Chips]

When did this happen?

1970's

The decade which saw the lowest wealth inequality.

It’s slightly easier to be all equal when everyone is poor because the economy isn’t growing and most of the people who have the means to leave

But yeah, that’s where socialism leads to as well

[Max B Gold]

Taxing the mega rich has been tried. It did not work; they just took their money elsewhere.

Their 'money' isn't sitting in bank accounts. It's in houses and factories and shopping centres and commercial office space and businesses and other real, tangible, fixed assets that you can't just pick up and take with you to the Cayman Islands or Monaco.

Tax them on their wealth.

And those houses, factories and shopping centres(!) are probably already held in overseas companies. If they have the latter they would probably be getting a tax rebate anyway. Can't give away centres, or space in centres, atm.

Why would they get a tax rebate? The rents receivable by an offshore company are taxable in the UK. With the usual expenses and interest offsets being allowed.

An easy way to raise more tax from the rents would be to disallow an interest deduction.

[George M]

Tax the Corporations and mega-rich bastards and it will be a whole lot better.

What about the one we want to fund Orient

[LittleMate]

Their 'money' isn't sitting in bank accounts. It's in houses and factories and shopping centres and commercial office space and businesses and other real, tangible, fixed assets that you can't just pick up and take with you to the Cayman Islands or Monaco.

Tax them on their wealth.

And those houses, factories and shopping centres(!) are probably already held in overseas companies. If they have the latter they would probably be getting a tax rebate anyway. Can't give away centres, or space in centres, atm.

Why would they get a tax rebate? The rents receivable by an offshore company are taxable in the UK. With the usual expenses and interest offsets being allowed.

An easy way to raise more tax from the rents would be to disallow an interest deduction.

If it were that easy, why was it not announced day one? Or will it be by day 100???

[Long slender neck]

Do you really expect things are so simple they can just be done on day one?

People want simple solutions to complicated problems, but its not realistic.

[Max B Gold]

And those houses, factories and shopping centres(!) are probably already held in overseas companies. If they have the latter they would probably be getting a tax rebate anyway. Can't give away centres, or space in centres, atm.

Why would they get a tax rebate? The rents receivable by an offshore company are taxable in the UK. With the usual expenses and interest offsets being allowed.

An easy way to raise more tax from the rents would be to disallow an interest deduction.

If it were that easy, why was it not announced day one? Or will it be by day 100???

The simple reason is that Labour are now a party of business and it is against their neo liberal religion to defy their paymasters.

[Adz]

Seems to me the focus is only on money coming in. A thorough review of spending would no doubt identify billions being wasted every year on bloated bureaucratic processes

[Admin]

1970's

The decade which saw the lowest wealth inequality.

It’s slightly easier to be all equal when everyone is poor because the economy isn’t growing and most of the people who have the means to leave

But yeah, that’s where socialism leads to as well

Where did I say everyone was equal? And was everyone poor in the 70s?

Not sure the heath government of 70-74 could be described as socialist - nor the later Wilson / Callaghan governments. The latter abandoned plans for wealth tax as unworkable.

We’ve not had a socialist government in this country since 1951. Gone well since then hasn’t it?

[Hoover Attack]

There's no other way, Admin.

[MassiveForehead]

Do you really expect things are so simple they can just be done on day one?

People want simple solutions to complicated problems, but its not realistic.

Populism thrives under this in a nutshell, until they get into power and usually make things worse. Then want to move to an authoritarian regime.

[Currywurst and Chips]

The decade which saw the lowest wealth inequality.

It’s slightly easier to be all equal when everyone is poor because the economy isn’t growing and most of the people who have the means to leave

But yeah, that’s where socialism leads to as well

Where did I say everyone was equal? And was everyone poor in the 70s?

Not sure the heath government of 70-74 could be described as socialist - nor the later Wilson / Callaghan governments. The latter abandoned plans for wealth tax as unworkable.

We’ve not had a socialist government in this country since 1951. Gone well since then hasn’t it?

Didn’t say the govt’s of the 70s were socialist (hence “as well”) so straw man.

You fail to quantify what “gone well” would entail but since we’re discussing growth we’ve gone from the third to second in GDP in Europe since the 1970s.

You seem to bemoan a lack of socialist governments in the UK (apologies if I’ve misread your sarcasm). So I’d ask on return to name a country who has been a socialist state since the 1970s who have had better outcomes than us?

[Hoover Attack]

See - no other way.

[Max B Gold]

It’s slightly easier to be all equal when everyone is poor because the economy isn’t growing and most of the people who have the means to leave

But yeah, that’s where socialism leads to as well

Where did I say everyone was equal? And was everyone poor in the 70s?

Not sure the heath government of 70-74 could be described as socialist - nor the later Wilson / Callaghan governments. The latter abandoned plans for wealth tax as unworkable.

We’ve not had a socialist government in this country since 1951. Gone well since then hasn’t it?

Didn’t say the govt’s of the 70s were socialist (hence “as well”) so straw man.

You fail to quantify what “gone well” would entail but since we’re discussing growth we’ve gone from the third to second in GDP in Europe since the 1970s.

You seem to bemoan a lack of socialist governments in the UK (apologies if I’ve misread your sarcasm). So I’d ask on return to name a country who has been a socialist state since the 1970s who have had better outcomes than us?

Is the answer Cuba?

[Admin]

It’s slightly easier to be all equal when everyone is poor because the economy isn’t growing and most of the people who have the means to leave

But yeah, that’s where socialism leads to as well

Where did I say everyone was equal? And was everyone poor in the 70s?

Not sure the heath government of 70-74 could be described as socialist - nor the later Wilson / Callaghan governments. The latter abandoned plans for wealth tax as unworkable.

We’ve not had a socialist government in this country since 1951. Gone well since then hasn’t it?

Didn’t say the govt’s of the 70s were socialist (hence “as well”) so straw man.

You fail to quantify what “gone well” would entail but since we’re discussing growth we’ve gone from the third to second in GDP in Europe since the 1970s.

You seem to bemoan a lack of socialist governments in the UK (apologies if I’ve misread your sarcasm). So I’d ask on return to name a country who has been a socialist state since the 1970s who have had better outcomes than us?

Not sure why you've brought socialism into it then if you weren't referring to the 70's governments. My original comment just made reference to the 70's and wealth inequality since.

And no, my comment wasn't bemoaning a lack of socialist government (although the last government to deliver any form of major social reform ended in 1951). The UK has been on a gentle slide of decline since then - particularly accelerated since the 1980's.

[Friend or fart]

Just let a load of keyboard warriors from this website run the UK economy and with the likes of Max B Gold ( and his other aliases ) offering up Cuba as a role model, Jesus wept !

[Max B Gold]

Just let a load of keyboard warriors from this website run the UK economy and with the likes of Max B Gold ( and his other aliases ) offering up Cuba as a role model, Jesus wept !

Oh, have I got that one incorrect? Is the answer North Korea?

[LittleMate]

The decade which saw the lowest wealth inequality.

It’s slightly easier to be all equal when everyone is poor because the economy isn’t growing and most of the people who have the means to leave

But yeah, that’s where socialism leads to as well

Where did I say everyone was equal? And was everyone poor in the 70s?

Not sure the heath government of 70-74 could be described as socialist - nor the later Wilson / Callaghan governments. The latter abandoned plans for wealth tax as unworkable.

We’ve not had a socialist government in this country since 1951. Gone well since then hasn’t it?

It was going so well that after little more than a term going back to the country to seek a larger majority and they lost - never to be seen again judging by your comment. Based on that, socialism as a popular concept has been dead in the UK for 70+ years. Quite sad really.

[Max B Gold]

It’s slightly easier to be all equal when everyone is poor because the economy isn’t growing and most of the people who have the means to leave

But yeah, that’s where socialism leads to as well

Where did I say everyone was equal? And was everyone poor in the 70s?

Not sure the heath government of 70-74 could be described as socialist - nor the later Wilson / Callaghan governments. The latter abandoned plans for wealth tax as unworkable.

We’ve not had a socialist government in this country since 1951. Gone well since then hasn’t it?

It was going so well that after little more than a term going back to the country to seek a larger majority and they lost - never to be seen again judging by your comment. Based on that, socialism as a popular concept has been dead in the UK for 70+ years. Quite sad really.

It is sad and just as sad that neo liberal capitalism will bring down liberal democracy and leave us with a brutal and ugly fascism.

[Brigs]

It’s slightly easier to be all equal when everyone is poor because the economy isn’t growing and most of the people who have the means to leave

But yeah, that’s where socialism leads to as well

Where did I say everyone was equal? And was everyone poor in the 70s?

Not sure the heath government of 70-74 could be described as socialist - nor the later Wilson / Callaghan governments. The latter abandoned plans for wealth tax as unworkable.

We’ve not had a socialist government in this country since 1951. Gone well since then hasn’t it?

It was going so well that after little more than a term going back to the country to seek a larger majority and they lost - never to be seen again judging by your comment. Based on that, socialism as a popular concept has been dead in the UK for 70+ years. Quite sad really.

Ah dear old Teresa May

[Admin]

It’s slightly easier to be all equal when everyone is poor because the economy isn’t growing and most of the people who have the means to leave

But yeah, that’s where socialism leads to as well

Where did I say everyone was equal? And was everyone poor in the 70s?

Not sure the heath government of 70-74 could be described as socialist - nor the later Wilson / Callaghan governments. The latter abandoned plans for wealth tax as unworkable.

We’ve not had a socialist government in this country since 1951. Gone well since then hasn’t it?

It was going so well that after little more than a term going back to the country to seek a larger majority and they lost - never to be seen again judging by your comment. Based on that, socialism as a popular concept has been dead in the UK for 70+ years. Quite sad really.

Thanks - I'm aware of that. Remind you again it wasn't me who brought socialism into this discussion.

I'd understand the withering dismissal of socialism (which in reality in this country at best would be a very mild form of democratic socialism such as offered by Corbyn in 2017) if it was the cause of the current skip-fire we're in. But it isn't is it?

[LittleMate]

Where did I say everyone was equal? And was everyone poor in the 70s?

Not sure the heath government of 70-74 could be described as socialist - nor the later Wilson / Callaghan governments. The latter abandoned plans for wealth tax as unworkable.

We’ve not had a socialist government in this country since 1951. Gone well since then hasn’t it?

It was going so well that after little more than a term going back to the country to seek a larger majority and they lost - never to be seen again judging by your comment. Based on that, socialism as a popular concept has been dead in the UK for 70+ years. Quite sad really.

Thanks - I'm aware of that. Remind you again it wasn't me who brought socialism into this discussion.

I'd understand the withering dismissal of socialism (which in reality in this country at best would be a very mild form of democratic socialism such as offered by Corbyn in 2017) if it was the cause of the current skip-fire we're in. But it isn't is it?

I didn't bring up socialism either!

The UK definitely needs something different to what's on offer - that is in the direction away from the one its heading in and more towards a caring society. If that's socialism then so be it - but how to achieve it without crippling society in the process is the issue for me. Idle comments like tax the billionaires and corporations is far too simple an approach to be successful. I think we have to start by accepting we have to repair the existing broken model rather than smashing it and trying to build a new one. The power to achieve that can only be achieved right now by being within the labour party. If it could be achieved in any other way then there would be an alternate mass leftist movement. The simple fact is that right now the support for such a party does not exist - which is why the more extreme elements shelter within the labour movement. What they need is a charismatic figure who can carry the argument with persuasion. They have yet to appear.

[ChorizO]

Where did I say everyone was equal? And was everyone poor in the 70s?

Not sure the heath government of 70-74 could be described as socialist - nor the later Wilson / Callaghan governments. The latter abandoned plans for wealth tax as unworkable.

We’ve not had a socialist government in this country since 1951. Gone well since then hasn’t it?

Didn’t say the govt’s of the 70s were socialist (hence “as well”) so straw man.

You fail to quantify what “gone well” would entail but since we’re discussing growth we’ve gone from the third to second in GDP in Europe since the 1970s.

You seem to bemoan a lack of socialist governments in the UK (apologies if I’ve misread your sarcasm). So I’d ask on return to name a country who has been a socialist state since the 1970s who have had better outcomes than us?

Is the answer Cuba?

Er, no.

[George M]

The Labour Party was voted in because there was no credible opposition. They will not make the changes required because active minority groups will not allow it. We generate enough wealth in this country . The issue is and always will be , how it is spent , distributed, and ,ultimately, wasted.

[Max B Gold]

It was going so well that after little more than a term going back to the country to seek a larger majority and they lost - never to be seen again judging by your comment. Based on that, socialism as a popular concept has been dead in the UK for 70+ years. Quite sad really.

Thanks - I'm aware of that. Remind you again it wasn't me who brought socialism into this discussion.

I'd understand the withering dismissal of socialism (which in reality in this country at best would be a very mild form of democratic socialism such as offered by Corbyn in 2017) if it was the cause of the current skip-fire we're in. But it isn't is it?

I didn't bring up socialism either!

The UK definitely needs something different to what's on offer - that is in the direction away from the one its heading in and more towards a caring society. If that's socialism then so be it - but how to achieve it without crippling society in the process is the issue for me. Idle comments like tax the billionaires and corporations is far too simple an approach to be successful. I think we have to start by accepting we have to repair the existing broken model rather than smashing it and trying to build a new one. The power to achieve that can only be achieved right now by being within the labour party. If it could be achieved in any other way then there would be an alternate mass leftist movement. The simple fact is that right now the support for such a party does not exist - which is why the more extreme elements shelter within the labour movement. What they need is a charismatic figure who can carry the argument with persuasion. They have yet to appear.

This broken model you are so desperate to repair delivered the current bin fire.

This utopian social democracy you so wistfully desire in order to create a more caring society cannot exist without taxing the billionaires/corporates so that wealth can be redistributed to reduce inequality. Its been done before with some success.

If humanity is to survive, the drive for profit at all costs, the exhaustion of the planet and its resources and permanent war must end.