South Africa

[Hoover Attack]

At least some people have the balls to stand up and speak out. They will go down on the right side of history.

As the great man Nelson Mandela said, "The United Nations took a strong stand against apartheid; and over the years, an international consensus was built, which helped to bring an end to this iniquitous system…but we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.”

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/j ... 1370&ei=10

[Dunners]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out at the ICJ.

Genuinely without meaning to detract from the merits of this case, it will be interesting to eventually find out more about just why South Africa has brought this case. I'm open minded that they are doing it out of a genuine principled position on apartheid (which is understandable), but the cynic in me cannot help but suspect that there's more to this than meets the eye.

[Long slender neck]

Do you have a theory?

[Dunners]

Nah.

[Long slender neck]

If I had to guess, is it something like South Africa is having its strings pulled by a baddie like Iran/China/Russia? Or its a distraction from something else happening in South Africa?

I just dont believe countries do 'good' things for no 'profit'.

[Dunners]

Actually, I do have a bit of a theory.

You're bang on that countries tend not to do this sort of thing for no advantage. And it's certainly curious that a country that is on the brink of becoming a failed state and with serious domestic problems to contend with would do this. But, given SA's history with apartheid, I remain open to the possibility that this is a principled stand. However, my instinct is to be cynical...

I think that by the end of this decade we'll see events, such as as the invasion of Ukraine and the 7th October Hamas attacks, as part of a wider emerging international coalition to challenge the post-WW2 world order. Either through direct action or through the use of proxies.

The key members of that coalition are already known; Iran, China, Russia, North Korea, Venezuela and Corbyn.

But there's a number of states which are still undecided on which side they will come down on. These include the likes of Turkey, Egypt, Vietnam, Indonesia, Brazil, various Arab states and South Africa. It's not outside the realms of possibility that SA is using this as an opportunity to do a bit of playing both sides. It's a move that will certainly please and amuse the axis of evil, whilst remaining within the rules of the game that doesn't see it ejected from the Western order.

Obviously, even if this is some sort of cynical play by South Africa, it doesn't necessarily mean that their case does not have merit. In fact, the more merit their case has, the more effective this move is.

[Long slender neck]

Ah, South Africa has an election this year.

Just read about their daily power cuts and unemployment rate

[Dunners]

It also increases the risk for international support for Israel. Should SA win its case it will reflect very badly on its international backers and supporters.

[Give it to Jabo]

Actually, I do have a bit of a theory.

You're bang on that countries tend not to do this sort of thing for no advantage. And it's certainly curious that a country that is on the brink of becoming a failed state and with serious domestic problems to contend with would do this. But, given SA's history with apartheid, I remain open to the possibility that this is a principled stand. However, my instinct is to be cynical...

I think that by the end of this decade we'll see events, such as as the invasion of Ukraine and the 7th October Hamas attacks, as part of a wider emerging international coalition to challenge the post-WW2 world order. Either through direct action or through the use of proxies.

The key members of that coalition are already known; Iran, China, Russia, North Korea, Venezuela and Corbyn.

But there's a number of states which are still undecided on which side they will come down on. These include the likes of Turkey, Egypt, Vietnam, Indonesia, Brazil, various Arab states and South Africa. It's not outside the realms of possibility that SA is using this as an opportunity to do a bit of playing both sides. It's a move that will certainly please and amuse the axis of evil, whilst remaining within the rules of the game that doesn't see it ejected from the Western order.

Obviously, even if this is some sort of cynical play by South Africa, it doesn't necessarily mean that their case does not have merit. In fact, the more merit their case has, the more effective this move is.

I agree with your analysis, Dunners, but when you use a phrase such as "the axis of evil" I think that the hope of true diplomacy and universal goodwill and co-operation is a long way off,....

[Hoover Attack]

‘Your analysis’

[Dunners]

[ComeOnYouOs]

Even if the judgement at the ICJ goes against Israel, absolutely nothing will happen.
Israel has been flaunting international law for 75 years with impunity.
With America on their side, they can ignore every UN resolution the like.
America will use its veto to snuff out any meaningful sanction of Israel.

[Proposition Joe]

Actually, I do have a bit of a theory.

You're bang on that countries tend not to do this sort of thing for no advantage. And it's certainly curious that a country that is on the brink of becoming a failed state and with serious domestic problems to contend with would do this. But, given SA's history with apartheid, I remain open to the possibility that this is a principled stand. However, my instinct is to be cynical...

I think that by the end of this decade we'll see events, such as as the invasion of Ukraine and the 7th October Hamas attacks, as part of a wider emerging international coalition to challenge the post-WW2 world order. Either through direct action or through the use of proxies.

The key members of that coalition are already known; Iran, China, Russia, North Korea, Venezuela and Corbyn.

But there's a number of states which are still undecided on which side they will come down on. These include the likes of Turkey, Egypt, Vietnam, Indonesia, Brazil, various Arab states and South Africa. It's not outside the realms of possibility that SA is using this as an opportunity to do a bit of playing both sides. It's a move that will certainly please and amuse the axis of evil, whilst remaining within the rules of the game that doesn't see it ejected from the Western order.

Obviously, even if this is some sort of cynical play by South Africa, it doesn't necessarily mean that their case does not have merit. In fact, the more merit their case has, the more effective this move is.

Are Brazil goodies again now Lula is back in charge? Or does that make them baddies again/still because he's a Loony Bloody Lefty?!

[Dunners]

Actually, I do have a bit of a theory.

You're bang on that countries tend not to do this sort of thing for no advantage. And it's certainly curious that a country that is on the brink of becoming a failed state and with serious domestic problems to contend with would do this. But, given SA's history with apartheid, I remain open to the possibility that this is a principled stand. However, my instinct is to be cynical...

I think that by the end of this decade we'll see events, such as as the invasion of Ukraine and the 7th October Hamas attacks, as part of a wider emerging international coalition to challenge the post-WW2 world order. Either through direct action or through the use of proxies.

The key members of that coalition are already known; Iran, China, Russia, North Korea, Venezuela and Corbyn.

But there's a number of states which are still undecided on which side they will come down on. These include the likes of Turkey, Egypt, Vietnam, Indonesia, Brazil, various Arab states and South Africa. It's not outside the realms of possibility that SA is using this as an opportunity to do a bit of playing both sides. It's a move that will certainly please and amuse the axis of evil, whilst remaining within the rules of the game that doesn't see it ejected from the Western order.

Obviously, even if this is some sort of cynical play by South Africa, it doesn't necessarily mean that their case does not have merit. In fact, the more merit their case has, the more effective this move is.

Are Brazil goodies again now Lula is back in charge? Or does that make them baddies again/still because he's a Loony Bloody Lefty?!

Neither.

If we're seeing a genuine shift back to a multi-polar world, which appears to be the case, then whoever is the current leader of most countries is unlikely to make much of a difference to their longer-term strategies. And using a goodie/baddie lens - as much as I like to - doesn't really explain the direction different countries will take (my use of the phrase "axis of evil" above was just very lazy shorthand).

The natural regional power in South America is Argentina, despite what a basket case it is. So the direction of travel for Brazil is most likely to be influenced by what Argentina does. Their next presidential election is due on 2027, but they have senate elections due in 2025. That should give us a hint as to whether they see the US as a reliable trade and security ally for the future, or if they wish to hedge their bets elsewhere.

[Daily Express bot]

Why did they not take Russia to court over Ukraine?

I think the answer is , they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them. This is pure antisemitism. History repeating itself.

[Proposition Joe]

Oh f*** off.

[Dunners]

It's not antisemitism. It's either a genuine principled stand or geopolitical manoeuvring.

[Daily Express bot]

It's not antisemitism. It's either a genuine principled stand or geopolitical manoeuvring.

Russian puppet string pulling.

[Proposition Joe]

Seriously everyone, we need to stop the replies. Admit I'm as bad as anyone at getting drawn into it but if we ignore him he'll have to tire of this.

[Daily Express bot]

Seriously everyone, we need to stop the replies. Admit I'm as bad as anyone at getting drawn into it but if we ignore him he'll have to tire of this.

If you do not agree say something constructive or do not reply. You have replied twice once being aggressive by swearing at me and now trying to curry favour. Who are you to judge me?

[Stowaway]

Seriously everyone, we need to stop the replies. Admit I'm as bad as anyone at getting drawn into it but if we ignore him he'll have to tire of this.

Just ban him, ffs.

[Chief crazy horse]

I don't know about the anti semitism, but South Africa is very much sympathetic towards Russia, of that there is no doubt. So on that score, at least, i agree with Express. So I don't understand all this big furore going on ?

[Hoover Attack]

Ah, South Africa has an election this year.

LOL. That's going to be the Right Wing/Zionist default "hot take", isn't it?

[Dunners]

Ah, South Africa has an election this year.

LOL. That's going to be the Right Wing/Zionist default "hot take", isn't it?

Obviously, this is a false equivalence as, in South Africa, general elections will always result with an ANC victory. Whereas military interventions in the Middle East are absolutely not an electoral advantage in the UK and especially in the US. In the US, this will be playing right into the hands and campaign narrative for Trump, so Biden is taking a political risk.

[Tuffers#2]

Why did they not take Russia to court over Ukraine?

I think the answer is , they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them. This is pure antisemitism. History repeating itself.

Putin Has been taken to Court & Faces arrest in the " Free World" along with some of his hangers on.