MY VERDICT

[Monkey Boy]

Monkey boy, be interested to hear on your theory.
Possibly inside information?
But I also know of someone close to Ritchie and certainly not anything I am hearing about he'll be off anytime soon.

Re my post reply to leebmx please

[Chief crazy horse]

Please don't hate me, really don't rate RW, has one game plan, that he constantly tries, really pleased it worked last year, but we have all got to admit, games last year were very boring and predictable. And we made hard work of it. Think to be honest, last year was odd, big teams were in transition, but it was great sometimes

You don't have to feel guilty egg, everything you say here is more or less true. Everyone's blaming the players for one thing or another, everyone's suggesting a new striker will solve our problems, but no one is laying any of the blame on the manager. RW has to change our attacking approach. There is and always has been too much emphasis on our midfield dominance. How many times do we see us dominating games early on without creating any openings,and then the opposition go down the other end for more or less the first time and either score or create a goalscoring chance ? Some people are blind to the fact that because we won the league last year there can't be any problems. Well, there were problems and there still are this season. Last term we relied on wonder goals or had to work like trojans to edge wins by the odd goal. We're in a higher division now and have drawn three blanks on the trot. That hasn't come as any surprise to me and it's not ALL down to the players either but down to the manager too to change things.

[Lady Luck]

You ask why I think Wellens will leave. Think today was perfectly obvious, he’s not been backed.

This bit especially confuses me. Not backed how? Financially?

Wellens said in an interview that it was discussed & agreed what the (then, potential) League One budget would be before he signed a contract extension in Nov last year. It was part of the contract terms. So I'm not sure how it can be a shock or a sudden disappointment to him now.

[leebmx]

Hi Monkey thanks for the reply but my post was directed at the OP.

In relation to what you say though I think there is far too much short-term thinking on this board. I am
happy with progress, and since the new owners took over this has been a constant.
They set out a plan and we are ahead of schedule.
It just gets harder and harder the higher we go. But personally if we stay up this season that will be progress and we can build from there.
I am happy to get into convos with people about why they think we might have gone wrong in the transfer market, where we are weak, or strong, what style of play we would like. But there is too much we don’t know about the club and how it operates to be posting some of the hyperbolic drama we sometimes see.
I think a lot about Deli Ali recently. Getting slagged off left and right then turns out he is dealing with loads of mental health issues no-one knows about. There’s so much we don’t know which is why people who go to extremes about performances need to check themselves imo.

[DrWindy]

But you can tell them they don't feature in your plans and look to move them on. The likes of Sotiriou and Thompson aren't suitable options at this level but could be useful to clubs in L2, much like Clay went to Sutton once he knew he wasn't being offered anything.

Also get the feeling in desperation to not have to recruit a large number of players in one go over summer we may have overpaid the likes of Happe, Beckles and Sweeney, having lost core squad members in Vigs and Smyth.

....and what would you have said if we had binned 3/4 of a championship winning squad in June and taken 3 months to replace it?

That business needs to be done quickly in key areas? When the 3 defenders were delaying on contracts was quite happy to see all replaced if it came to it.

The key ones to retain moved on and we got one unexpected bonus with El Miz returning. Not many would've been fussed if our L2 strikers left either.

Monkey boy, be interested to hear on your theory.
Possibly inside information?
But I also know of someone close to Ritchie and certainly not anything I am hearing about he'll be off anytime soon.

What I'd like to know is how close are we to signing these next two strikers .

Was told by someone that Kent said Monday?

RW says post match that we might not get them as we are likely to need a new keeper.

[RedDwarf 1881]

....and what would you have said if we had binned 3/4 of a championship winning squad in June and taken 3 months to replace it?

That business needs to be done quickly in key areas? When the 3 defenders were delaying on contracts was quite happy to see all replaced if it came to it.

The key ones to retain moved on and we got one unexpected bonus with El Miz returning. Not many would've been fussed if our L2 strikers left either.

What I'd like to know is how close are we to signing these next two strikers .

Was told by someone that Kent said Monday?

RW says post match that we might not get them as we are likely to need a new keeper.

If Sol stay's back at Middlesborough wouldn't that free up some of our budget to get another keeper . If it doesn't we'd be getting just one more striker at best .

[BiggsyMalone]

Please don't hate me, really don't rate RW, has one game plan, that he constantly tries, really pleased it worked last year, but we have all got to admit, games last year were very boring and predictable. And we made hard work of it. Think to be honest, last year was odd, big teams were in transition, but it was great sometimes

Orient fans are f*cking weird at times.

[redintheface]

The relegation 6 pointer comment is a bit dramatic but there is a fair bit of truth in the rest of what you say.

I’d actually forgotten that we even have Thompson at the club. He isn’t L1 standard.

Yet after our terrible defending today Thompson might be in for a start on Tuesday night . He can't do any worse then Beckles did today .

Highly unlikely give that he’s injured and out of action until October.

[Sid Bishop]

Monkeyboy why are you so obsessed that Ritchie will be gone by Christmas or October, do you go out drinking with him or something?
These chats are about the team but you always come back with 'Ritchie will be gone by so and so'?

What makes you so sure?
He'll be hear to the end of the season..trust me.
I told you in May that El Mizoni would sign for us again & I'll tell you now Ritchie will be here the full season.
Not a 50/50 guess, true facts.
I'll remind you of this post end of April.

I would give an answer Dave if you really want but I’m fed up with the constant abuse I get off people for voicing my opinions

Well @Monkey Boy....you got it right ( on the other forum ) about KJ not lasting the full season, it was not a popular view and you got a lot of flack for saying that..... but you turned out to be right !
As to RW being gone by October, well I think thats a very big call. I think myself that after just two league games and with this glut of injuries, plus Os being rather cash strapped to bring in quick quality replacements, well too early to call but I somewhat agree with @Eggski that Wellins seems to only having one way to play and if that plan goes wrong, then is rather inflexible in being able to adapt to changed circumstances and come up with a plan B,C or D etc. I think rather than Os challenging for promotion this season ( a popular theme amongst many fans on both forums ) I feel that especially with so many early injuries, its more like going to be a season of struggle, time will tell but lets hope for the best.

[moonwalk19]

Where to begin eh?
Everything Ive been saying over the last few days was there for all to see yet again, if you choose to open your eyes, which it looks like more ( not all) are now doing.
We are so far behind the standard of this league, its embarrassing. Only 1 player is truly of the standard required, and thats El Miz, who shines like a swan would by the side of ugly ducklings.
Some of the squad are so truly awful, I dont know how Richie gave them new contracts. I'm talking about Jayden & Omar...they are both nowhere near good enough, no where near.
Rob Hunt has been shown to be no more than a bog standard league 2 player, and Danny Happe is leaving a lot to be desired. His performances have been poor, but ill not write him off as a lost cause quite yet. His injury from last season might still be a slight factor, and i believe he is capable of some improvement. The juries out on him for now.
Moncs wasnt great, but he is one of our better players. Brown has improvement in him too, Sanders & Galbraith, i havent seen enough to give an opinion on them at this time.
Sotiriou is being attacked by many as not being good enough, but to me, he isnt bad. I like him, and find it hard to understand that people attack him, but remain silent about Stewart & Beccles!!!!
Finally Pigott. Cant make my mind up about him, so I'll put him on ice so to speak, for the time being.
We need about 5 or 6 good reliable league 1 players brought in, but I doubt if it will happen, and we are going to struggle to stay in this league. In fact, as we are, its a near certainty we wont stay in this league past this season.
On Tuesday, we are playing Wycombe, another struggling side, and already, this early, its a 6 pointer relegation battle.
We are told a player will be coming in next week, possibly 2 players. they must be experienced players who know what they are doing.........a couple of promising kids wont cut the mustard here, for us.
I love this club, Ive been supporting them for 58 years ffs, and seeing what im seeing is breaking my bloody heart. It can be put right, if the will ( and money) is there to do it. Is it though?
Just to finish, I have had some of the worst insults thrown at me this past week, simply for giving my opinion. The mods/Admin should be addressing this, but they dont seem to want to, so please, if you dont agree with me, just tell me why you dont, but dont throw personal insults at me. You are showing yourselves up

I agree with most things you have said.I thought yesterday apart from the first 10 minutes it looked like men against boys.I thought that it was the worst performance under Richie’s reign. The defence did not appear to have much faith in the goalkeeper he looked out of his depth.Vigs always commanded his area. To me Riches post match interview did not address the facts that we were out gunned by a team who could have gone up another level at any time. Our full backs were poor and hardly won a header.There were problems all over the pitch.is Richie trying to get the fitnes level to L1 level that is causing these injuries.Is he pushing them too hard . After yesterday’s performance we perhaps do need 5 /6 good L1 players

[Adz]

I'm kind of torn on this. It feels like the board and management have under estimated the step up, but we have played 2 of the biggest teams in the league (both former premier league, I still have the stub from our cup upset at fratton Park!).

We've been a bit unlucky with injuries, but it shows that our depth is inadequate (especially up front).

I had worries before the season started that some of our first team players wouldn't be able to make the step up and it is starting to look the case, but I think we need to give them a bit more time to get used to the increased speed and technicality of the league.

If you think back to when we last got promoted from league 2, it was very similar to now. You can't make wholesale changes and build a team from scratch, you have to give the players who achieved the promotion a chance and make incremental replacements. To strengthen over time.

The aim needs to be safety this season and then build from there. It's not the dream we all want, but it is the reality we face.

[Sid Bishop]

I'm kind of torn on this. It feels like the board and management have under estimated the step up, but we have played 2 of the biggest teams in the league (both former premier league, I still have the stub from our cup upset at fratton Park!).

We've been a bit unlucky with injuries, but it shows that our depth is inadequate (especially up front).

I had worries before the season started that some of our first team players wouldn't be able to make the step up and it is starting to look the case, but I think we need to give them a bit more time to get used to the increased speed and technicality of the league.

If you think back to when we last got promoted from league 2, it was very similar to now. You can't make wholesale changes and build a team from scratch, you have to give the players who achieved the promotion a chance and make incremental replacements. To strengthen over time.

The aim needs to be safety this season and then build from there. It's not the dream we all want, but it is the reality we face.

Yes a good and balanced comment. quote ''The aim needs to be safety this season and then build from there. It's not the dream we all want, but it is the reality we face'' Yes very true, that is the harsh reality and IMO very fanciful those talking pre-season of another promotion this season.

[Monkey Boy]

Monkeyboy why are you so obsessed that Ritchie will be gone by Christmas or October, do you go out drinking with him or something?
These chats are about the team but you always come back with 'Ritchie will be gone by so and so'?

What makes you so sure?
He'll be hear to the end of the season..trust me.
I told you in May that El Mizoni would sign for us again & I'll tell you now Ritchie will be here the full season.
Not a 50/50 guess, true facts.
I'll remind you of this post end of April.

I would give an answer Dave if you really want but I’m fed up with the constant abuse I get off people for voicing my opinions

Well @Monkey Boy....you got it right ( on the other forum ) about KJ not lasting the full season, it was not a popular view and you got a lot of flack for saying that..... but you turned out to be right !
As to RW being gone by October, well I think thats a very big call. I think myself that after just two league games and with this glut of injuries, plus Os being rather cash strapped to bring in quick quality replacements, well too early to call but I somewhat agree with @Eggski that Wellins seems to only having one way to play and if that plan goes wrong, then is rather inflexible in being able to adapt to changed circumstances and come up with a plan B,C or D etc. I think rather than Os challenging for promotion this season ( a popular theme amongst many fans on both forums ) I feel that especially with so many early injuries, its more like going to be a season of struggle, time will tell but lets hope for the best.

Thanks for the reply Sid and others too,I may of been a little over zealous with the October comment however if things do remain the same transfer wise then he will definitely be gone by the end of the season if not before. Think yesterday’s game proved the point how threadbare we are up front. It’s just not a matter of just injuries but more a question of moral and confidence even after 3 games. We don’t even look like scoring and the longer it goes on the deeper the moral will affect the team ,supporters and crucially the manager. If they don’t get at least 3 quality players in,even on 3 month short term contracts to tied us over then all the hard work the chairman/board have done over the last five years would be for nothing. Saying that I feel the Chairman as brilliant as he is,has made a mistake by coming out at the end of last season and saying that the club just wants to stabilise for the next few seasons. He should of said nothing and just left it. By doing that you put a mind set into players,supporters and manager that your willing to tread water for a few years. I could imo pick the bones out of last Saturday’s and yesterday’s performance in a negative way but I know I will get the usual abuse from the vultures on here and quite frankly,like I said life’s to short to argue with people that know nothing about the game and how it’s run and before anyone comes back to say I’m a know it all,I don’t “but frankly my dear I don’t give a damn”

[Luna Tic]

I’ll help you with Piggot, he’s the new Alan West . If you know you know . Bit of a luxury player , won’t score many ,and slow, with just nice touches .Not sure he really fits RW style of play

[Top of the JES]

Too much knee jerk reaction to our start IMHO, we have been up against established league one clubs with far bigger budgets and a championship club who won League one last season. As far as League one goes I don't see us as being on a par with Charlton and Pompey in anything other than league status so losing the first three games is no surprise to me although performance yesterday second half was poor but we were without seven players through injury yeaterday and that's hurting us. TBH I don't see us fighting out with the likes of Charlton, Pompey, Derby, Bolton, Barnsley and Peterborough. Our fight this season is with a dozen clubs with similar budgets to ours, we are in a league within a league. The injury situation has been something no one for saw and exposed gaps in the squad - I felt going into the season we had a midfielder too many and a striker too few. The next half a dozen games will tell us where we are, Wycombe on Tuesday I expect will be a tighter more even game.

I stand by my prediction of 16th to 18th this season and if we do that it will be a job well done.

[Top of the JES]

I’ll help you with Piggot, he’s the new Alan West . If you know you know . Bit of a luxury player , won’t score many ,and slow, with just nice touches .Not sure he really fits RW style of play

Alan West? Think you mean Colin West.

Don't judge Pigott until we get a settled side, he worked his nuts off yesterday with no support.

[Adz]

I’ll help you with Piggot, he’s the new Alan West . If you know you know . Bit of a luxury player , won’t score many ,and slow, with just nice touches .Not sure he really fits RW style of play

Alan West? Think you mean Colin West.

Don't judge Pigott until we get a settled side, he worked his nuts off yesterday with no support.

West wasn't a luxury, he was a liability!

[Monkey Boy]

You can’t keep playing a system that doesn’t suit the players at your disposal. The full backs are over worked,and Sweeney in particular can’t put a decent cross in. Even if he did there’s nobody in the penalty area or six yard box. The centre back Beckles is to casual . Happe is always looking for the long diagonal ball. The wide players are not coming back to help out the full backs and Vice versa . The midfield isn’t balanced with the right players. Moncur is puffing like Thomas the tank engine. Brown doesn’t know what position to be in because he keeps getting moved around. Theo is the only outlet and he’s being doubled up on . Ruel is playing wide it’s not his position and you can see his confidence draining minute by minute. Pigot might as well stay in the dressing room,poor bugger is chasing shadows,he needs a player along side. The whole team when they start a game they seem to be looking to contain the other team and not go on the offensive for some reason. Portsmouth were not that great nor were Charlton imo but the longer the games went on the more confident they got. If we can manage to get a couple of strikers in this week and if we can edge in front of games we will look a different side.

[Top of the JES]

You can’t keep playing a system that doesn’t suit the players at your disposal. The full backs are over worked,and Sweeney in particular can’t put a decent cross in. Even if he did there’s nobody in the penalty area or six yard box. The centre back Beckles is to casual . Happe is always looking for the long diagonal ball. The wide players are not coming back to help out the full backs and Vice versa . The midfield isn’t balanced with the right players. Moncur is puffing like Thomas the tank engine. Brown doesn’t know what position to be in because he keeps getting moved around. Theo is the only outlet and he’s being doubled up on . Ruel is playing wide it’s not his position and you can see his confidence draining minute by minute. Pigot might as well stay in the dressing room,poor bugger is chasing shadows,he needs a player along side. The whole team when they start a game they seem to be looking to contain the other team and not go on the offensive for some reason. Portsmouth were not that great nor were Charlton imo but the longer the games went on the more confident they got. If we can manage to get a couple of strikers in this week and if we can edge in front of games we will look a different side.

Does not help having seven players unavailable due to injury either, I take your point about the midfield being unbalanced there were though three good opportunities for us first half two for Moncur and one for Ruel - that said we didn't take them and the second half was poor.

[gshaw]

I felt going into the season we had a midfielder too many and a striker too few.

Though it feels like we have a lot of CMs we don't in fact have any more than last season, just a bit of a step up in quality with one that was a loan (Duke-McKenna) now a permanent (Galbraith). Sanders replaced Clay like for like.

You could make an argument about whether we really needed both Pratley and Brown though the former's leadership and the latter's utility player flexibility make a good case for both.

We were two short upfront before the injuries, they just highlighted it way more than you'd expect at this stage of the season.

[Chief crazy horse]

I’ll help you with Piggot, he’s the new Alan West . If you know you know . Bit of a luxury player , won’t score many ,and slow, with just nice touches .Not sure he really fits RW style of play

I've seen him twice now and I'm not too impressed so far. But I always give new players time before a definitive assessment. Having said that about Piggot i think we have a big problem with creativity and link up play in the last third, and that's for the manager to sort out.

[Monkey Boy]

Just a footnote before I sign off, if the rumours are true?about Kelman coming back then we are truly buggered, and that will give you some aspiration about the board’s intentions. But I hope it’s not true?

[redintheface]

I’ll help you with Piggot, he’s the new Alan West . If you know you know . Bit of a luxury player , won’t score many ,and slow, with just nice touches .Not sure he really fits RW style of play

I've seen him twice now and I'm not too impressed so far. But I always give new players time before a definitive assessment. Having said that about Piggot i think we have a big problem with creativity and link up play in the last third, and that's for the manager to sort out.

Rather premature and harsh judgement on Pigott imho. The bloke has landed in a team that is decimated by injuries and has been given next to no service. I’m confident he will do okay if others around him can also pick up their game.

[Max B Gold]

I’ll help you with Piggot, he’s the new Alan West . If you know you know . Bit of a luxury player , won’t score many ,and slow, with just nice touches .Not sure he really fits RW style of play

I've seen him twice now and I'm not too impressed so far. But I always give new players time before a definitive assessment. Having said that about Piggot i think we have a big problem with creativity and link up play in the last third, and that's for the manager to sort out.

Sure is. The days of a water tight defence and 1-0 victories look to be over.

[Jman]

What on earth is the car crash that is this thread? Been thinking some of these posts have to be a wind up, but I think frighteningly they’re meant seriously…

About 4 professional league games ago, we lifted our first FL title in about 40 years and the club is breaking your heart?

Hard drive and examining comes to mind