Russia / Ukraine Watch

[Max Fowler]

I'm sure he'll answer them in his usual manner.

What happened to partygate, out of interest?

[Max B Gold]

Yeah, if we're going to call out some on the loony-left for allowing themselves to be influenced into useful idiots, we must challenge the corruptible right who were happy to accept ill-gotten gains. And the latter is far more insidious and damaging to our national security. Nobody can claim to by surprised that Oligarch wealth is connected to the Putin regime.

Johnson has serious questions to answer in respect of Lebedev.

Whose job is it to call out the war mongering centerists?

Eg Simon Tisdall at the Guardian.

[Dunners]

Yeah, if we're going to call out some on the loony-left for allowing themselves to be influenced into useful idiots, we must challenge the corruptible right who were happy to accept ill-gotten gains. And the latter is far more insidious and damaging to our national security. Nobody can claim to by surprised that Oligarch wealth is connected to the Putin regime.

Johnson has serious questions to answer in respect of Lebedev.

Whose job is it to call out the war mongering centerists?

Eg Simon Tisdall at the Guardian.

Thankfully nobody pays any attention to Simon Tisdall. Or The Guardian.

[Max B Gold]

Yeah, if we're going to call out some on the loony-left for allowing themselves to be influenced into useful idiots, we must challenge the corruptible right who were happy to accept ill-gotten gains. And the latter is far more insidious and damaging to our national security. Nobody can claim to by surprised that Oligarch wealth is connected to the Putin regime.

Johnson has serious questions to answer in respect of Lebedev.

Whose job is it to call out the war mongering centerists?

Eg Simon Tisdall at the Guardian.

Thankfully nobody pays any attention to Simon Tisdall. Or The Guardian.

Yeah but I'm ragin' about it.

[BoniO]

Makes you proud to be British.......

"Europe minister James Cleverly has been questioned over why only 50 visas have been given to Ukrainians fleeing the conflict under the Ukraine Family Scheme (this is according to the Home Office's own figures)."

Bojo was questioned about this and simply said "the numbers are wrong" (even though they came from the Home Office). When then asked what the numbers were Bojo didn't know.

[Currywurst and Chips]

We might get things wrong but the fact Zelensky is talking to Boris daily and addressing the UK parliament soon is promising

Makes you proud to British.......

[Max B Gold]

We might get things wrong but the fact Zelensky is talking to Boris daily and addressing the UK parliament soon is promising

Makes you proud to British.......

Even prouder when he gets a standing ovation from Russian financed Tory MP's.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

We might get things wrong but the fact Zelensky is talking to Boris daily and addressing the UK parliament soon is promising

Makes you proud to British.......

You could call it talking. You could also probably call it begging, to get him to actually do something.

[E10EU]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... itain.html

Almost 100 Russians have been hit with sanctions but only 13 by Britain. Yet Johnson claims that 'Britain is leading the way'.

[Currywurst and Chips]

I appear to have activated the But NATO crowd

[Dunners]

Heh. Hard to avoid.

I think the summary of UK performance in response to the crisis, so far, is:

Intelligence - only behind the US in terms of accurate intelligence reporting and willingness to share with wider community. We could even argue that Ukraine could have mobilised defensive forces sooner based on what the UK and US was sharing, however in the longer term I don't think it will have made much difference so is a mute point.

Tactical, strategic and military - We've pretty much led the way in terms of providing both non-lethal and defensive resources to Ukraine. Anyone in any doubt as to the level of support received from the UK should listen to Ukrainian military chiefs instead of whoever it is they are listening to.

I personally think that we're right to continue on our present course. The calls to implement a No Fly Zone do seem to be growing, but calm heads need to prevail. We need to prepare for the long haul here, and knee-jerk and (to a degree) populist actions may not be in our best longer-term interest. Russia getting bogged down in an insurgency conflict within Ukraine for a few years gives the rest of Europe time to prepare.

Sanctions - We've clearly been compromised, and need to do more. But the US has given us a kick up the backside and those days are well and truly over (in respect of Russian money, that is). It's just that unpicking the complex web of assets, shell companies and deciding on the most effective options is going to take time. And, while people may not feel this way right now, once our populations feel the economic blowback of these sanctions we can expect popular support to wane.

Also, this isn't just the UK that deserves criticism. Germany is arguably Russia's most important financer fright now, through it utterly stupid energy policy. Other countries too are in a similar position, and there are plenty of examples of other government trying to carve out exceptions to sanctions for their own benefit (see Italy and luxury goods). Anyone currently holding the sacred EU aloft as some paragon of virtue and in contrast to the UK are being very selective and certainly misguided. This is a global realignment.

Refugees - Yeah, we've been rubbish. But I suspect that a year from now this will be insignificant as we'll be dealing with numbers on a whole different scale to what anyone has been used to. So it's probably not worth the efforts of the usual mob to focus all their outrage energy on this right now. That time will come.

Instead we need a rational debate about UK policy for refugees and migration in general, but in the context of increasing global instability. Just wait until the consequences of rapidly increasing energy prices, wheat shortages, fertiliser price surges and a sudden reduction in global crop yields hits across multiple regions. Think the Arab Spring, but magnified massively across parts of Europe, the Sahel, central Asian republics and possibly even China.

[Max B Gold]

[Max B Gold]

Heh. Hard to avoid.

I think the summary of UK performance in response to the crisis, so far, is:

Intelligence - only behind the US in terms of accurate intelligence reporting and willingness to share with wider community. We could even argue that Ukraine could have mobilised defensive forces sooner based on what the UK and US was sharing, however in the longer term I don't think it will have made much difference so is a mute point.

Tactical, strategic and military - We've pretty much led the way in terms of providing both non-lethal and defensive resources to Ukraine. Anyone in any doubt as to the level of support received from the UK should listen to Ukrainian military chiefs instead of whoever it is they are listening to.

I personally think that we're right to continue on our present course. The calls to implement a No Fly Zone do seem to be growing, but calm heads need to prevail. We need to prepare for the long haul here, and knee-jerk and (to a degree) populist actions may not be in our best longer-term interest. Russia getting bogged down in an insurgency conflict within Ukraine for a few years gives the rest of Europe time to prepare.

Sanctions - We've clearly been compromised, and need to do more. But the US has given us a kick up the backside and those days are well and truly over (in respect of Russian money, that is). It's just that unpicking the complex web of assets, shell companies and deciding on the most effective options is going to take time. And, while people may not feel this way right now, once our populations feel the economic blowback of these sanctions we can expect popular support to wane.

Also, this isn't just the UK that deserves criticism. Germany is arguably Russia's most important financer fright now, through it utterly stupid energy policy. Other countries too are in a similar position, and there are plenty of examples of other government trying to carve out exceptions to sanctions for their own benefit (see Italy and luxury goods). Anyone currently holding the sacred EU aloft as some paragon of virtue and in contrast to the UK are being very selective and certainly misguided. This is a global realignment.

Refugees - Yeah, we've been rubbish. But I suspect that a year from now this will be insignificant as we'll be dealing with numbers on a whole different scale to what anyone has been used to. So it's probably not worth the efforts of the usual mob to focus all their outrage energy on this right now. That time will come.

Instead we need a rational debate about UK policy for refugees and migration in general, but in the context of increasing global instability. Just wait until the consequences of rapidly increasing energy prices, wheat shortages, fertiliser price surges and a sudden reduction in global crop yields hits across multiple regions. Think the Arab Spring, but magnified massively across parts of Europe, the Sahel, central Asian republics and possibly even China.

Your analysis of the military situation completely ignores the prospect of a worldwide nuclear war and the destruction of the planet.

[Max B Gold]

I appear to have activated the But NATO crowd

On Monday my therapist set me a task: to record every time I logged on to the MB what I posted, and how I felt in the process.

This embarrassing piece of homework was in response to an impassioned rant I’d embarked on, during our session. “Everyone just keeps trumpeting their opinions like they know anything,” I said, pausing before admitting that my anger was also drawn from frustration at my own posting behaviour. “Why can’t I stop wading in?

[Max Fowler]

Heh. Hard to avoid.

I think the summary of UK performance in response to the crisis, so far, is:

Intelligence - only behind the US in terms of accurate intelligence reporting and willingness to share with wider community. We could even argue that Ukraine could have mobilised defensive forces sooner based on what the UK and US was sharing, however in the longer term I don't think it will have made much difference so is a mute point.

Tactical, strategic and military - We've pretty much led the way in terms of providing both non-lethal and defensive resources to Ukraine. Anyone in any doubt as to the level of support received from the UK should listen to Ukrainian military chiefs instead of whoever it is they are listening to.

I personally think that we're right to continue on our present course. The calls to implement a No Fly Zone do seem to be growing, but calm heads need to prevail. We need to prepare for the long haul here, and knee-jerk and (to a degree) populist actions may not be in our best longer-term interest. Russia getting bogged down in an insurgency conflict within Ukraine for a few years gives the rest of Europe time to prepare.

Sanctions - We've clearly been compromised, and need to do more. But the US has given us a kick up the backside and those days are well and truly over (in respect of Russian money, that is). It's just that unpicking the complex web of assets, shell companies and deciding on the most effective options is going to take time. And, while people may not feel this way right now, once our populations feel the economic blowback of these sanctions we can expect popular support to wane.

Also, this isn't just the UK that deserves criticism. Germany is arguably Russia's most important financer fright now, through it utterly stupid energy policy. Other countries too are in a similar position, and there are plenty of examples of other government trying to carve out exceptions to sanctions for their own benefit (see Italy and luxury goods). Anyone currently holding the sacred EU aloft as some paragon of virtue and in contrast to the UK are being very selective and certainly misguided. This is a global realignment.

Refugees - Yeah, we've been rubbish. But I suspect that a year from now this will be insignificant as we'll be dealing with numbers on a whole different scale to what anyone has been used to. So it's probably not worth the efforts of the usual mob to focus all their outrage energy on this right now. That time will come.

Instead we need a rational debate about UK policy for refugees and migration in general, but in the context of increasing global instability. Just wait until the consequences of rapidly increasing energy prices, wheat shortages, fertiliser price surges and a sudden reduction in global crop yields hits across multiple regions. Think the Arab Spring, but magnified massively across parts of Europe, the Sahel, central Asian republics and possibly even China.

Desperately scanning this for an EAGLE but can't seem to find it?

[Dunners]

I personally think that we're right to continue on our present course. The calls to implement a No Fly Zone do seem to be growing, but calm heads need to prevail. We need to prepare for the long haul here, and knee-jerk and (to a degree) populist actions may not be in our best longer-term interest. Russia getting bogged down in an insurgency conflict within Ukraine for a few years gives the rest of Europe time to prepare.

Your analysis of the military situation completely ignores the prospect of a worldwide nuclear war and the destruction of the planet.

I've deliberately not gone there, however the truncated section I've quoted is aimed at avoiding that scenario for now.

[Max B Gold]

I personally think that we're right to continue on our present course. The calls to implement a No Fly Zone do seem to be growing, but calm heads need to prevail. We need to prepare for the long haul here, and knee-jerk and (to a degree) populist actions may not be in our best longer-term interest. Russia getting bogged down in an insurgency conflict within Ukraine for a few years gives the rest of Europe time to prepare.

Your analysis of the military situation completely ignores the prospect of a worldwide nuclear war and the destruction of the planet.

I've deliberately not gone there, however the truncated section I've quoted is aimed at avoiding that scenario for now.

Ok but not recognising the new Russian imposed govt in Ukraine and continuing to militarily and otherwise support an insurgency will have further consequences for the West. So not sure how it is avoided by what you say.

[Max B Gold]

Yeah, if we're going to call out some on the loony-left for allowing themselves to be influenced into useful idiots, we must challenge the corruptible right who were happy to accept ill-gotten gains. And the latter is far more insidious and damaging to our national security. Nobody can claim to by surprised that Oligarch wealth is connected to the Putin regime.

Johnson has serious questions to answer in respect of Lebedev.

Whose job is it to call out the war mongering centerists?

Eg Simon Tisdall at the Guardian.

Thankfully nobody pays any attention to Simon Tisdall. Or The Guardian.

[Dunners]

Your analysis of the military situation completely ignores the prospect of a worldwide nuclear war and the destruction of the planet.

I've deliberately not gone there, however the truncated section I've quoted is aimed at avoiding that scenario for now.

Ok but not recognising the new Russian imposed govt in Ukraine and continuing to militarily and otherwise support an insurgency will have further consequences for the West. So not sure how it is avoided by what you say.

It doesn't necessarily provoke Russia to escalate to using nuclear weapons either. And, if it was looking like it may, we'd have time to consider that and decide on whether to adapt our approach because it will keep Russian forces bogged down.

So far, Putin's strategy over the years has been to undertake provocations which, while condemned, have not been enough for the West to really act with force. And in doing so he has reset the baseline level of normal acceptance each and every time. We now need to do the same. Try and be as much of a pain in the backside without it being enough for him to consider the use of tactical or strategic nukes a price worth paying.

[StillSpike]

Won't he get removed by his own people at some point if it all drags on and sanctions hurt the rich ones enough

[Real Al]

Dunners, I'm disappointed in you. The term is 'moot point'.

[Dunners]

Dunners, I'm disappointed in you. The term is 'moot point'.

It's mind bottling that I got that wrong.

[StillSpike]

Dunners, I'm disappointed in you. The term is 'moot point'.

It's mind bottling that I got that wrong.

Think you'll need an escape goat to get out of this one.

[Dunners]

Won't he get removed by his own people at some point if it all drags on and sanctions hurt the rich ones enough

He's spent the last 15 years preparing for this. He's well insulated and unlikely to be got at. Not even his senior ministers are allowed close to him anymore.

The other day the Kremlin released a video of him supposedly sat at a table with a group of trainee flight attendants, patiently explaining to their feeble female minds what his Special Military Operation in Ukraine was all about. Upon closer scrutiny the video has been revealed to be a fake, with the flight attendants actually projected onto a blue screen behind and around him.

We need to plan for him being in power for the remainder of his natural life. He's almost 70, but if he's being looked after, that could be for a long time yet.

[Top of the JES]

Won't he get removed by his own people at some point if it all drags on and sanctions hurt the rich ones enough

He's spent the last 15 years preparing for this. He's well insulated and unlikely to be got at. Not even his senior ministers are allowed close to him anymore.

The other day the Kremlin released a video of him supposedly sat at a table with a group of trainee flight attendants, patiently explaining to their feeble female minds what his Special Military Operation in Ukraine was all about. Upon closer scrutiny the video has been revealed to be a fake, with the flight attendants actually projected onto a blue screen behind and around him.

We need to plan for him being in power for the remainder of his natural life. He's almost 70, but if he's being looked after, that could be for a long time yet.

The Green screen theory has pretty much been debunked now Dunners. If you go onto youtube and look at the clip online it appears at one stage that Putins hand goes through a solid micophone stand placed in front of him, but the same clip in HD shows his hand passes behind the stand - the video appears to be genuine.