ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:22 pm
Ross's record is 19 wins from 57 games, so 33.3% win ratio.
So bang average manager, but when you consider he has one of the biggest budgets in the division, and has had the luxury of having Danny Johnson, a goal scoring machine, which has undoubtedly given his win ratio a boost. without Dannys goals, we would be 23rd now
As ive said, many many times, Ross is a nice guy, but not a manager IMO
Most managers are bang average.
I don’t know where you get the idea we have one of the biggest budgets from.
I thought it was about sixth.
At the moment Ross is performing ok.
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:22 pm
Ross's record is 19 wins from 57 games, so 33.3% win ratio.
So bang average manager, but when you consider he has one of the biggest budgets in the division, and has had the luxury of having Danny Johnson, a goal scoring machine, which has undoubtedly given his win ratio a boost. without Dannys goals, we would be 23rd now
As ive said, many many times, Ross is a nice guy, but not a manager IMO
Most managers are bang average.
I don’t know where you get the idea we have one of the biggest budgets from.
I thought it was about sixth.
At the moment Ross is performing ok.
Bang average will not get us promoted, nobody wants to see our team tread water.
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:22 pm
Ross's record is 19 wins from 57 games, so 33.3% win ratio.
So bang average manager, but when you consider he has one of the biggest budgets in the division, and has had the luxury of having Danny Johnson, a goal scoring machine, which has undoubtedly given his win ratio a boost. without Dannys goals, we would be 23rd now
As ive said, many many times, Ross is a nice guy, but not a manager IMO
Most managers are bang average.
I don’t know where you get the idea we have one of the biggest budgets from.
I thought it was about sixth.
At the moment Ross is performing ok.
I said, Ross has one of the biggest budgets......you then castigated me for saying that, then you tell me its about the sixth biggest budget.
Well in a division of 24 teams, I would say , the sixth biggest budget is one of the biggest in the division......wouldnt you?
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:22 pm
Ross's record is 19 wins from 57 games, so 33.3% win ratio.
So bang average manager, but when you consider he has one of the biggest budgets in the division, and has had the luxury of having Danny Johnson, a goal scoring machine, which has undoubtedly given his win ratio a boost. without Dannys goals, we would be 23rd now
As ive said, many many times, Ross is a nice guy, but not a manager IMO
Most managers are bang average.
I don’t know where you get the idea we have one of the biggest budgets from.
I thought it was about sixth.
At the moment Ross is performing ok.
I said, Ross has one of the biggest budgets......you then castigated me for saying that, then you tell me its about the sixth biggest budget.
Well in a division of 24 teams, I would say , the sixth biggest budget is one of the biggest in the division......wouldnt you?
No.
The way you were banging on you were giving the impression it was top 3.
With our budget and location we would expect to finish about eighth.
So Ross is doing ok.
Hardly any managers outperform their budget on a consistent basis.
Slade did, 3 times out of 4.
A Pedant wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:57 pm
Ross's win rate in 19/20 since becoming full-time head coach: 4 wins from 11 = 36.4%
Ross's win rate so far in 20/21: 10 wins from 22 = 45.5%
The trend is clearly upwards, which is not treading water. The key question is whether that upwards trend continues or not.
Ling said the same but using points per game. But It’s hard to compare the two seasons for obvious reasons. What is material is the current win rate. 45% is respectable. If he can maintain that then I’m sure he can feel satisfied.
A Pedant wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:57 pm
Ross's win rate in 19/20 since becoming full-time head coach: 4 wins from 11 = 36.4%
Ross's win rate so far in 20/21: 10 wins from 22 = 45.5%
The trend is clearly upwards, which is not treading water. The key question is whether that upwards trend continues or not.
Ling said the same but using points per game. But It’s hard to compare the two seasons for obvious reasons. What is material is the current win rate. 45% is respectable. If he can maintain that then I’m sure he can feel satisfied.
45% won’t get us promoted, we will end up treading water and that is not an ambitious club or me s a fan wants to see.
A Pedant wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:57 pm
Ross's win rate in 19/20 since becoming full-time head coach: 4 wins from 11 = 36.4%
Ross's win rate so far in 20/21: 10 wins from 22 = 45.5%
The trend is clearly upwards, which is not treading water. The key question is whether that upwards trend continues or not.
Ling said the same but using points per game. But It’s hard to compare the two seasons for obvious reasons. What is material is the current win rate. 45% is respectable. If he can maintain that then I’m sure he can feel satisfied.
45% won’t get us promoted, we will end up treading water and that is not an ambitious club or me s a fan wants to see.
I think you will find 45% will get us promoted.
In fact, if Ross keeps that up other clubs will come sniffing around.
A Pedant wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:57 pm
Ross's win rate in 19/20 since becoming full-time head coach: 4 wins from 11 = 36.4%
Ross's win rate so far in 20/21: 10 wins from 22 = 45.5%
The trend is clearly upwards, which is not treading water. The key question is whether that upwards trend continues or not.
Ling said the same but using points per game. But It’s hard to compare the two seasons for obvious reasons. What is material is the current win rate. 45% is respectable. If he can maintain that then I’m sure he can feel satisfied.
45% won’t get us promoted, we will end up treading water and that is not an ambitious club or me s a fan wants to see.
His 45% win rate would get us into 9 of the last 10 completed seasons playoffs. So he is hardly treading water.
Also, just for the record again, I'm not even a big RE fan. There is lots he does that frustrates me and he wouldn't have been my automatic choice. But the way people frame things to make it sound like he is the worst manager in our history is just plain strange.
Thor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:58 pm
45% will not get us promoted, do the math.
It absolutely could.
(It wouldn't though)
Correct and thank you.
I said before the season started in the prediction thread we.qould finish 9th with i think it was 65 points which would be a massive improvement on last season, but not enough to propel us to the play off. I've seen nothing to change my mind.
We are capable of winning games on the spin and keeping clean sheets, then Ross seems to think he is mourinho and changes everything up and we lose a.cpuple or a few. Thats the inexperience of him coming through. He needs to be more confident in what he does, but he has improved thats for sure, just not enough to get us to the level we as fans would probably want us to be at.
Thor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:58 pm
45% will not get us promoted, do the math.
Yep.
You do get a point for a draw you know.
45% win rate =62.1 points.
This is from 21.7 games.
That will leave 24.3 points.
Total 86.4.
More than enough for a top 3 finish.
Not unless you think a team will win 21.7 games and lose everyone of the rest.
Thor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:58 pm
45% will not get us promoted, do the math.
It absolutely could.
(It wouldn't though)
Correct and thank you.
I said before the season started in the prediction thread we.qould finish 9th with i think it was 65 points which would be a massive improvement on last season, but not enough to propel us to the play off. I've seen nothing to change my mind.
We are capable of winning games on the spin and keeping clean sheets, then Ross seems to think he is mourinho and changes everything up and we lose a.cpuple or a few. Thats the inexperience of him coming through. He needs to be more confident in what he does, but he has improved thats for sure, just not enough to get us to the level we as fans would probably want us to be at.
Yeah, I'd probably agree with that exactly. He's not the messiah, but he's also not a very naughty boy.
Thor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:58 pm
45% will not get us promoted, do the math.
Yep.
You do get a point for a draw you know.
45% win rate =62.1 points.
This is from 21.7 games.
That will leave 24.3 points.
Total 86.4.
More than enough for a top 3 finish.
Not unless you think a team will win 21.7 games and lose everyone of the rest.
Our draw rate at present is not meeting your expectations, hence why it won’t be enough.
PoliticOs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:05 pm
Also, just for the record again, I'm not even a big RE fan. There is lots he does that frustrates me and he wouldn't have been my automatic choice. But the way people frame things to make it sound like he is the worst manager in our history is just plain strange.
For sure not the worst appointment. But was he the best? Everybody accepts he is going through a massive learning curve. Perhaps an appointment that didn’t require a long apprenticeship would have avoided that particular problem.
When the boys are leading the premier league in 2023/24 and we've got 44 points out of 45, old CumOn will still be calling for Ross's head for not being 100%.
Thor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:58 pm
45% will not get us promoted, do the math.
It absolutely could.
(It wouldn't though)
Correct and thank you.
I said before the season started in the prediction thread we.qould finish 9th with i think it was 65 points which would be a massive improvement on last season, but not enough to propel us to the play off. I've seen nothing to change my mind.
We are capable of winning games on the spin and keeping clean sheets, then Ross seems to think he is mourinho and changes everything up and we lose a.cpuple or a few. Thats the inexperience of him coming through. He needs to be more confident in what he does, but he has improved thats for sure, just not enough to get us to the level we as fans would probably want us to be at.
Agree 100% with this.
I am not his greatest fan but I am hoping he learns to be a manager.
At the moment I am not convinced, but he seems to realise now that playing 4 across the back gives us more balance.
I would like to see Him be really bold ,and play a very attacking 4 2 4, but I think I might have a long wait for that.
I think us Orient fans do like to watch wingers, it’s in our DNA.
PoliticOs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:05 pm
Also, just for the record again, I'm not even a big RE fan. There is lots he does that frustrates me and he wouldn't have been my automatic choice. But the way people frame things to make it sound like he is the worst manager in our history is just plain strange.
For sure not the worst appointment. But was he the best? Everybody accepts he is going through a massive learning curve. Perhaps an appointment that didn’t require a long apprenticeship would have avoided that particular problem.
It would have been a lot more expensive, and they would have to work with Ling.
PoliticOs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:05 pm
Also, just for the record again, I'm not even a big RE fan. There is lots he does that frustrates me and he wouldn't have been my automatic choice. But the way people frame things to make it sound like he is the worst manager in our history is just plain strange.
For sure not the worst appointment. But was he the best? Everybody accepts he is going through a massive learning curve. Perhaps an appointment that didn’t require a long apprenticeship would have avoided that particular problem.
It would have been a lot more expensive, and they would have to work with Ling.
JE managed to work with Ling and he was nobodies fool. So it’s proven we can appoint an experienced manager with the ability to work with Ling and the board as well as his staff and players. And bring success. So not impossible.
I hope Embleton succeeds, we all do. But for many, like me, I will always see him as someone who didn’t want the job, shoe-horned in to protect Ling from another cock-up. A convenience. On a massive learning curve that has set back our development by nearly a couple of years. What could we have achieved with this group of player!
But for all that his win rate and points per game remain respectable despite mostly poor performances. Progress.
He did want the job, but only after he’d already declined it and we brought in fletcher, who he then helped to get out.
He’s got one of the best squads in this division, more resources than most, but is failing to get us anywhere near to being a promotion challenging side. A good manager would get a lot more out of this group of players. Ross may go on to be a good manager but that’s not what he is now and it’s going to be expensive spending a couple of seasons to find out if he will or not.
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:11 pm
He did want the job, but only after he’d already declined it and we brought in fletcher, who he then helped to get out.
He’s got one of the best squads in this division, more resources than most, but is failing to get us anywhere near to being a promotion challenging side. A good manager would get a lot more out of this group of players. Ross may go on to be a good manager but that’s not what he is now and it’s going to be expensive spending a couple of seasons to find out if he will or not.
I agree with what you say with the exception of wanting the job.
He was adamant about not wanting it and I don’t believe that changed. He was convinced by Ling to take it. From then on what could he really say but come out with very unconvincing reasons behind his change of mind.
I don’t think we as a team are anywhere near where we could be or should be. Our performances in general are very poor with the odd decent one thrown in. And yes, treading water whilst he learns his trade. But based on points and wins it has to be said he is doing OK. Not great, nowhere near what we are capable of, but OK.
For sure not the worst appointment. But was he the best? Everybody accepts he is going through a massive learning curve. Perhaps an appointment that didn’t require a long apprenticeship would have avoided that particular problem.
It would have been a lot more expensive, and they would have to work with Ling.
JE managed to work with Ling and he was nobodies fool. So it’s proven we can appoint an experienced manager with the ability to work with Ling and the board as well as his staff and players. And bring success. So not impossible.
I hope Embleton succeeds, we all do. But for many, like me, I will always see him as someone who didn’t want the job, shoe-horned in to protect Ling from another cock-up. A convenience. On a massive learning curve that has set back our development by nearly a couple of years. What could we have achieved with this group of player!
But for all that his win rate and points per game remain respectable despite mostly poor performances. Progress.
He worked with ling as they had their demarcation lines, ling did his thing and supported Justin where required and ling stayed out of Justin's business unless asked.
Ling now is quite clearly having more input into the first team than before, thats quite clear.
For sure not the worst appointment. But was he the best? Everybody accepts he is going through a massive learning curve. Perhaps an appointment that didn’t require a long apprenticeship would have avoided that particular problem.
It would have been a lot more expensive, and they would have to work with Ling.
JE managed to work with Ling and he was nobodies fool. So it’s proven we can appoint an experienced manager with the ability to work with Ling and the board as well as his staff and players. And bring success. So not impossible.
I hope Embleton succeeds, we all do. But for many, like me, I will always see him as someone who didn’t want the job, shoe-horned in to protect Ling from another cock-up. A convenience. On a massive learning curve that has set back our development by nearly a couple of years. What could we have achieved with this group of player!
But for all that his win rate and points per game remain respectable despite mostly poor performances. Progress.
Well, we were told he didn’t want the job.
Find that a bit hard to believe myself.
