Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Anyone notice this young lad in the training videos & versus Harringey? This kid looks special with lots of tricks. Only 17

aylesburyos wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:46 pm Anyone notice this young lad in the training videos & versus Harringey? This kid looks special with lots of tricks. Only 17

I agree with you. I think he has a great future, whether its with us, or some other team who knows. I hope we have him here for a couple of years at least

Qin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:30 pm

aylesburyos wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:46 pm Anyone notice this young lad in the training videos & versus Harringey? This kid looks special with lots of tricks. Only 17

I agree with you. I think he has a great future, whether its with us, or some other team who knows. I hope we have him here for a couple of years at least

I’d like to see him get his chance from the bench this season

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:38 pm

Qin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:30 pm

aylesburyos wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:46 pm Anyone notice this young lad in the training videos & versus Harringey? This kid looks special with lots of tricks. Only 17

I agree with you. I think he has a great future, whether its with us, or some other team who knows. I hope we have him here for a couple of years at least

I’d like to see him get his chance from the bench this season

With 5 subs you probably will.

Best young midfield player since Steven Alzate.

Qin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:30 pm

aylesburyos wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:46 pm Anyone notice this young lad in the training videos & versus Harringey? This kid looks special with lots of tricks. Only 17

I agree with you. I think he has a great future, whether its with us, or some other team who knows. I hope we have him here for a couple of years at least

Funny, one of our so called 'fans' on twitter thinks we should shut down the academy and invest the money in the first team!

Loyal_Supporter wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:06 pm

Qin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:30 pm

aylesburyos wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:46 pm Anyone notice this young lad in the training videos & versus Harringey? This kid looks special with lots of tricks. Only 17

I agree with you. I think he has a great future, whether its with us, or some other team who knows. I hope we have him here for a couple of years at least

Funny, one of our so called 'fans' on twitter thinks we should shut down the academy and invest the money in the first team!

For the money it costs to run it'd bring the extra quality in for sure. Personally couldn't care less about developing players' futures for elsewhere, some seem to like celebrating the likes of Alazate playing for other clubs which I do find strange tbh.

Look forward to everyone slating him in 18 months time when he isn’t bossing every single game.

gshaw wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:56 pm

Loyal_Supporter wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:06 pm

Qin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:30 pm
I agree with you. I think he has a great future, whether its with us, or some other team who knows. I hope we have him here for a couple of years at least

Funny, one of our so called 'fans' on twitter thinks we should shut down the academy and invest the money in the first team!

For the money it costs to run it'd bring the extra quality in for sure. Personally couldn't care less about developing players' futures for elsewhere, some seem to like celebrating the likes of Alazate playing for other clubs which I do find strange tbh.

Couple of points:

We don’t know how much it costs to run the academy, nor do we know how much it brings in from transfer fees, so it’s impossible to judge.

I agree about Alzate, he wasn’t here long enough to develop a relationship with the fan base. I do however like to see the likes of Koroma doing well after moving on (but that also applies to both Bonne and Marvin, so not just an academy thing).

Gary the Plumber wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:10 pm Look forward to everyone slating him in 18 months time when he isn’t bossing every single game.

You nailed it, we need a player to be going exactly that. Any youth they bring through needs to be a complement to a full set of senior pros, not a cheap replacement for them. Last season was the perfect example of how not to do it, hopefully lessons have been learnt.

Gary the Plumber wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:14 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:56 pm

Loyal_Supporter wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:06 pm

Funny, one of our so called 'fans' on twitter thinks we should shut down the academy and invest the money in the first team!

For the money it costs to run it'd bring the extra quality in for sure. Personally couldn't care less about developing players' futures for elsewhere, some seem to like celebrating the likes of Alazate playing for other clubs which I do find strange tbh.

Couple of points:

We don’t know how much it costs to run the academy, nor do we know how much it brings in from transfer fees, so it’s impossible to judge.

I agree about Alzate, he wasn’t here long enough to develop a relationship with the fan base. I do however like to see the likes of Koroma doing well after moving on (but that also applies to both Bonne and Marvin, so not just an academy thing).

What we do know from T&T direct quotes is that it's a loss leader and only hoped to break even over 10 years.

Just looking at the staff roll call on the website would suggest it needs multiple Kyprianou esque sales each season to pay for itself.

Re Steven Alzate, actually some fans watched him develop through the academy in a youth team that strolled their league and gave us people like Happe and Koroma and through into the first team, so I don't agree he wasn't here long enough. He was at the club a number of years before hitting the first team.

Honestly it's comical that a couple of entitled fans with no real facts or figures think they could run the club better than it's being run now. gshaw has been frothing at the mouth about the academy for several seasons hoping it will implode and GTP has nothing very positive to say at the best of times he's a serial moaner and a wind up merchant to boot. I expect they will be wetting themselves when Alzate moves on from Brighton and we get a nice juicy sell on. Still "nowt as queer as folk" as they say in Yorkshire.

gshaw wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:14 pm What we do know from T&T direct quotes is that it's a loss leader and only hoped to break even over 10 years.

Just looking at the staff roll call on the website would suggest it needs multiple Kyprianou esque sales each season to pay for itself.

That doesn’t make sense. It can’t be loss making and break even over 10 years?

If it is loss making - I’m not saying it is - why do you think the club are persisting with it?

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:43 pm Re Steven Alzate, actually some fans watched him develop through the academy in a youth team that strolled their league and gave us people like Happe and Koroma and through into the first team, so I don't agree he wasn't here long enough. He was at the club a number of years before hitting the first team.

Honestly it's comical that a couple of entitled fans with no real facts or figures think they could run the club better than it's being run now. gshaw has been frothing at the mouth about the academy for several seasons hoping it will implode and GTP has nothing very positive to say at the best of times he's a serial moaner and a wind up merchant to boot. I expect they will be wetting themselves when Alzate moves on from Brighton and we get a nice juicy sell on. Still "nowt as queer as folk" as they say in Yorkshire.

There may be a handful of Superfans such as your good self who were there the day Alzate signed for the club as an 8 year old, but most people will be in the same boat as me.

Why are you naming me? I’m not sharing gshaws call to shut down the academy. We don’t have the info to make that call.

Nice homophobic sign off, by the way.

Gary the Plumber wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:59 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:43 pm Re Steven Alzate, actually some fans watched him develop through the academy in a youth team that strolled their league and gave us people like Happe and Koroma and through into the first team, so I don't agree he wasn't here long enough. He was at the club a number of years before hitting the first team.

Honestly it's comical that a couple of entitled fans with no real facts or figures think they could run the club better than it's being run now. gshaw has been frothing at the mouth about the academy for several seasons hoping it will implode and GTP has nothing very positive to say at the best of times he's a serial moaner and a wind up merchant to boot. I expect they will be wetting themselves when Alzate moves on from Brighton and we get a nice juicy sell on. Still "nowt as queer as folk" as they say in Yorkshire.

There may be a handful of Superfans such as your good self who were there the day Alzate signed for the club as an 8 year old, but most people will be in the same boat as me.

Why are you naming me? I’m not sharing gshaws call to shut down the academy. We don’t have the info to make that call.

Nice homophobic sign off, by the way.

I kind of knew you would comment on that, but it's a well known phrase in Yorkshire and commonly used so stop trying to be woke. it comes from a time long before LGBT+ was even a thing.

I'm no superfan but there is always a back story to someone like Alzate it's not like he was here 5 minutes and that particular Youth team was way beyond anything else we have had in many years. You dismiss our young talent like it doesn't matter - Obeiro is a real talent didn't take you long to jump on his back.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:08 pm

Gary the Plumber wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:59 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:43 pm Re Steven Alzate, actually some fans watched him develop through the academy in a youth team that strolled their league and gave us people like Happe and Koroma and through into the first team, so I don't agree he wasn't here long enough. He was at the club a number of years before hitting the first team.

Honestly it's comical that a couple of entitled fans with no real facts or figures think they could run the club better than it's being run now. gshaw has been frothing at the mouth about the academy for several seasons hoping it will implode and GTP has nothing very positive to say at the best of times he's a serial moaner and a wind up merchant to boot. I expect they will be wetting themselves when Alzate moves on from Brighton and we get a nice juicy sell on. Still "nowt as queer as folk" as they say in Yorkshire.

There may be a handful of Superfans such as your good self who were there the day Alzate signed for the club as an 8 year old, but most people will be in the same boat as me.

Why are you naming me? I’m not sharing gshaws call to shut down the academy. We don’t have the info to make that call.

Nice homophobic sign off, by the way.

I kind of knew you would comment on that, but it's a well known phrase in Yorkshire and commonly used so stop trying to be woke. it comes from a time long before LGBT+ was even a thing.

I'm no superfan but there is always a back story to someone like Alzate it's not like he was here 5 minutes and that particular Youth team was way beyond anything else we have had in many years. You dismiss our young talent like it doesn't matter - Obeiro is a real talent didn't take you long to jump on his back.

Don’t even explain yourself to this idiot it’s a waste of time.

Didn’t take long for the usual suspects to hijack another thread to further their personal feuds

Gary the Plumber wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:54 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:14 pm What we do know from T&T direct quotes is that it's a loss leader and only hoped to break even over 10 years.

Just looking at the staff roll call on the website would suggest it needs multiple Kyprianou esque sales each season to pay for itself.

That doesn’t make sense. It can’t be loss making and break even over 10 years?

If it is loss making - I’m not saying it is - why do you think the club are persisting with it?

Back to rational conversation after whatever nonsense is going on above...

I did ask this to T&T in one of the online Q&A's, the slightly cryptic answer was "there are other benefits, not all about the financial aspect" or words to that effect.

Personally I still think we've had better output on-pitch from scouting the likes of Ekpiteta and Bonne than we have from spending years at the academy and letting those players learn on tbe job then they move on once they're the finished product.

If we're serious about aiming at the top 3 this season we shouldn't be relying on academy players experiencing their first pro football. Fine to pad out the fringe squad so the pros can skip the PJ cup games though

I've often wondered whether the youth team setup feeds into young support for the club and community aspects.

We are located right within one of the best areas of the country for producing footballers and ties into our identity as a club heavily linked to the community it's in. Personally having academy players come through to the first team is a not insignificant part of the enjoyment I get from watching Orient - Koroma, Odubajo and Zakauni were my favourite players in each of the 'great' Orient sides I've watched. Would seem mad to scrap something that we're reasonably good in order to sign an extra senior player or two every season.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:08 pm
I kind of knew you would comment on that, but it's a well known phrase in Yorkshire and commonly used so stop trying to be woke. it comes from a time long before LGBT+ was even a thing.

When do you think the lesbians and gays became a 'thing' then? Pretty sure they've been around for quite some time. Probably even longer than Yorkshire folk have been walking around saying 'nowt as queer as folk' as they all do, all the time.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:08 pm
I'm no superfan but there is always a back story to someone like Alzate it's not like he was here 5 minutes and that particular Youth team was way beyond anything else we have had in many years.

Andy Edwards did indeed work miracles back then, I couldn't agree more. It obviously helped being a stable L1 club in terms of who you can attract but he has to be given all the plaudits for that. But that's still irrelevant to the affection nearly all Orient fans will have towards someone like Koroma, who stuck around and played a couple of seasons and helped win us a promotion, compared to that we have for the likes of Alzate, Dalby, Abrahams etc, who all cleared off after a handful of first team appearances. That's not really that contentious a view point, is it?

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:08 pm You dismiss our young talent like it doesn't matter - Obeiro is a real talent didn't take you long to jump on his back.

Are you fu*king insane? Have you even read this messageboard over the past few years? Have you seen anyone back up the young players on here as much as I have - be that Koroma, or Hector, or even the likes of Judd? You have got to be on a wind up.

How have I jumped on Obeiro's back? My point is that - much like with Hector - our fanbase are intolerant and not prepared to give these boys a chance, getting on their backs when they're not playing like senior pros at just 19/20 years of age.

Adz wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:10 am I've often wondered whether the youth team setup feeds into young support for the club and community aspects.

Nah, can't see that. The community work is something totally different.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:27 am We are located right within one of the best areas of the country for producing footballers and ties into our identity as a club heavily linked to the community it's in. Personally having academy players come through to the first team is a not insignificant part of the enjoyment I get from watching Orient - Koroma, Odubajo and Zakauni were my favourite players in each of the 'great' Orient sides I've watched. Would seem mad to scrap something that we're reasonably good in order to sign an extra senior player or two every season.

Yeah, I'm on board with that.

But are you really saying you preferred Koroma to Bonne? Or Happe to Marvin?

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:27 am We are located right within one of the best areas of the country for producing footballers and ties into our identity as a club heavily linked to the community it's in. Personally having academy players come through to the first team is a not insignificant part of the enjoyment I get from watching Orient - Koroma, Odubajo and Zakauni were my favourite players in each of the 'great' Orient sides I've watched. Would seem mad to scrap something that we're reasonably good in order to sign an extra senior player or two every season.

Completely agree.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:27 am We are located right within one of the best areas of the country for producing footballers and ties into our identity as a club heavily linked to the community it's in. Personally having academy players come through to the first team is a not insignificant part of the enjoyment I get from watching Orient - Koroma, Odubajo and Zakauni were my favourite players in each of the 'great' Orient sides I've watched. Would seem mad to scrap something that we're reasonably good in order to sign an extra senior player or two every season.

Would you rather get promoted because of having that extra depth or bring a couple of youth players through to have careers elsewhere? As you no doubt seen I only care for getting up the leagues and would rather follow the Brentford model in that regard.