Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Congratulations to Her Majesty on reaching 70 years on the throne.

For those interested in such things, there is a 70 airplane flypast today as part of the Trooping of the Colour celebration, including a Lancaster, Spitfires and Hurricanes, and the Red Arrows.

Should get a good sighting of them in Leyton as they head into central London, some time shortly before 1.00pm. The plateau on Leyton Marshes looking towards Stratford is a particularly good vantage point.

Great achievement that most people could achieve if they had everything and everyone at their disposal.

We live in a country where we place individuals who by the accident of birth have more in terms of wealth that is unimaginable to the vast majority who fund that wealth. The mad thing is, many are happy to so but at the same time are struggling to find the money for food, heat and shelter.

The Mindsweep:- Please bear in mind the contrast in our Head Of State compared to the Russian one. She never asked or sought her role in any way. It was thrust upon her by a quirk of fate. Many would have abused this Honour. She has worked tirelessly being polite to people she perhaps hated. Been bored by endless ceremonies and "entertainments". Only very rarely showing her Political feelings. Putting her Role and Country first. I really think you should have been a bit more magnanimous today. I hae mae doubts whether you could ever achieve such things. Go away and have a think about it!

Gawd bless 'er.

Unfortunately I'll miss all the celebrations, as I'm stuck sipping Aperol Spritz here in Venezia for the week. But I'll celebrate in my own way by indulging in as many Champagne Socialist Metropolitan Elite activities whilst abroad, while you oiks all doff your caps and do the dutiful patriotism for me.

“Imagine a scene: I stand before you, arms outstretched, proposing a trade. I will receive seven decades of uninterrupted rule as an unelected head of state, an estimated personal wealth of nearly £400m, on top of assets valued at a cool £22.2bn. And I’ll have some public money too, with the state funding my lifestyle to the tune of £85m. Oh, throw in the entitlement to operate above the law, and an enduring, unconscious agreement that somehow, me and my descendants are blessed with the divine right to rule over others.

In return you – peasantry you! – will be entitled to: one extra bank holiday, provided you are not self-employed, work in the service industry or don’t have a job that allows you to take it off, of course.

This, simply put, is the worst deal in the world. But it’s the very real scenario that faces Britain, Northern Ireland and some Commonwealth territories as we finally reach the week of ‘celebrations’ that mark Queen Elizabeth II’s Platinum Jubilee. Never has the mythology of the British monarchy seemed so obviously threadbare. As the political and cultural relevance of the Crown wanes, what remains is a system that entrenches subjugation for subjugation’s sake.

Rationally, it’s plain to see that the royals don’t earn anywhere near their keep – or their elevated status. Tourist revenue is often cited as a reason the monarchy needs to continue, with attractions like official royal residences and art collections pulling in an estimated £19bn pre-pandemic, although that income, naturally, declined by 53% in 2020/2021.

But tourism doesn’t require the existence of live monarchs; it’s not like Her Majesty is doing meet and greets outside Buckingham Palace. Tourists flock to the places, not the people. Versailles, one of the jewels of the French tourism industry, hasn’t been inhabited by royalty since 1793, even after intermittent restorations of the French monarchy. Yet it welcomes around ten million visitors a year. By comparison, the record for the total number of people who visited the official royal residences of the British monarchy is just over three million.

Any person objectively evaluating the royals would conclude that their subjects are being somewhat mugged off. Yet it doesn’t really matter how many times you point out that it doesn’t make sense that we’re still ruled by a single family based on a rationale that basically amounts to ‘they have mAgIc bLoOd’. Or that we’re getting exactly nothing in return. For a nation obsessed with getting a fair shake, all rationality flies out the window when it comes to the monarchy. The majority of Britain is still all too eager to remain crushed under the royal court heel, their attachment fully emotional. The question is: how long can that last?

As Politico put it last year, the British monarchy has a “succession problem”. Elizabeth is still popular. But her immediate successor – the hapless Charles – is not. A series of scandals, including Prince Andrew’s particularly nasty sexual assault case, have tarnished the royal brand. What’s more, the power of the British monarchy in the remaining overseas Commonwealth realms (the countries where the Queen is still head of state) has been very publicly challenged this year. The last dregs of empire, frequently cited as an argument for the Crown’s continuation, are finally running dry.

Following two separate royal tours, six of the remaining 14 Commonwealth realms have indicated plans to become republics, and amplified calls for reparations to be paid to countries impacted by the British slave trade – which the monarchy directly participated in and profited from. Questions the British public should be asking are being posed by others. “What are they doing for Jamaica?” queried dancehall legend Beenie Man in an ITV News interview. “They’re not doing anything for us.”

Research suggests that when Elizabeth – ahem – departs the throne, she’ll take with her a hefty helping of the imperial nostalgia that’s helped the monarchy keep on operating. The Queen represents a particular illusion of a Britain of yore, not unlike 20th century pastoral myths that hark back to a (non-existent) rural English idyll, often invoking an endless summer. Her reign evokes a yearning for a time ‘before’ when things were better somehow, communities were closer, life was simpler, when people really knew their place in society. This myth is a bulwark against the march of modernity, and Queen Elizabeth is a living relic of a past already archived and transformed from complex reality into dreamy fantasy.

I understand all this. As a young person mourning the loss of options that once existed, I too feel the pull of an imagined past. Nostalgia is often the first port of call when the walls of the present feel like they’re closing in, and Christ knows for millions of people, the immediate future is bleak. But the royals offer no balm to that. Although the public currently backs the continuation of the monarchy, with the end of the second Elizabethan era, there may be the opportunity for a gradual re-evaluation of the royals. At some point, surely, somebody has to ask what we – the general public – are really getting out of propping up an active monarchy. Both practically and psychologically, the presence of the royals is an incredible drain. It’s time we made some new myths”.

While I’m not instinctively a royalist, I think our system of the Monarch being Head of State works well and we are the envy of many with the history and ceremony and all that goes with it. I particularly find the history side interesting

I have a lot of time and respect for the Queen, none more demonstrated than at the funeral of Prince Philip - how to lead by example which others could do with following. I hope that she and many enjoy the celebrations over this long weekend.

I'm still waiting on my Death List 22 double of Her Mag and Tony Bennett. Six months left to cash in.

There is no bunting or Union Jack's or street parties in my neck of the woods, so it will largely slip by unnoticed by me (as long as I don't turn the telly on). Couldn't care less about the whole thing, but feel slightly miffed, that, having now retired I get no paid long weekend

Friend or faux wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:21 am The Mindsweep:- Please bear in mind the contrast in our Head Of State compared to the Russian one. She never asked or sought her role in any way. It was thrust upon her by a quirk of fate. Many would have abused this Honour. She has worked tirelessly being polite to people she perhaps hated. Been bored by endless ceremonies and "entertainments". Only very rarely showing her Political feelings. Putting her Role and Country first. I really think you should have been a bit more magnanimous today. I hae mae doubts whether you could ever achieve such things. Go away and have a think about it!

Hear, hear.

In a poll conducted at the last jubilee in 2012, 73% said they favoured the monarchy
Now that number is down to 62%, and among 18 to 24 years old it was only 33%, with another 33% favouring a republic So as the old un's die off, gradually they are being replaced with young republicans, which is good news for an old republican like me.
I hate the monarchy with every sinew in my body, but take some comfort, that after William, the monarchy will probably not exist any more.
I shall not be here to see it, unfortunately

Gary the Plumber wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:51 am “Imagine a scene: I stand before you, arms outstretched, proposing a trade. I will receive seven decades of uninterrupted rule as an unelected head of state, an estimated personal wealth of nearly £400m, on top of assets valued at a cool £22.2bn. And I’ll have some public money too, with the state funding my lifestyle to the tune of £85m. Oh, throw in the entitlement to operate above the law, and an enduring, unconscious agreement that somehow, me and my descendants are blessed with the divine right to rule over others.

...

I understand all this. As a young person mourning the loss of options that once existed, I too feel the pull of an imagined past. Nostalgia is often the first port of call when the walls of the present feel like they’re closing in, and Christ knows for millions of people, the immediate future is bleak. But the royals offer no balm to that. Although the public currently backs the continuation of the monarchy, with the end of the second Elizabethan era, there may be the opportunity for a gradual re-evaluation of the royals. At some point, surely, somebody has to ask what we – the general public – are really getting out of propping up an active monarchy. Both practically and psychologically, the presence of the royals is an incredible drain. It’s time we made some new myths”.

https://novaramedia.com/2022/05/31/the- ... the-world/

You forgot the picture...

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:17 am I hate the monarchy with every sinew in my body, but

Who do you hate more, the Queen, Israel or Martin Ling?

We have heard the Rights of Man called a levelling system; but the only system to which the word levelling is truly applicable, is the hereditary monarchical system.

It is a system of mental levelling. It indiscriminately admits every species of character to the same authority. Vice and virtue, ignorance and wisdom, in short, every quality, good or bad, is put on the same level. Kings succeed each other, not as rationals, but as animals. It signifies not what their mental or moral characters are.

Can we then be surprised at the abject state of the human mind in monarchical countries, when the government itself is formed on such an abject levelling system?—It has no fixed character. To-day it is one thing; to-morrow it is something else. It changes with the temper of every succeeding individual, and is subject to all the varieties of each. It is government through the medium of passions and accidents.

It appears under all the various characters of childhood, decrepitude, dotage, a thing at nurse, in leading-strings, or in crutches. It reverses the wholesome order of nature. It occasionally puts children over men, and the conceits of non-age over wisdom and experience. In short, we cannot conceive a more ridiculous figure of government, than hereditary succession, in all its cases, presents.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:17 am In a poll conducted at the last jubilee in 2012, 73% said they favoured the monarchy
Now that number is down to 62%, and among 18 to 24 years old it was only 33%, with another 33% favouring a republic So as the old un's die off, gradually they are being replaced with young republicans, which is good news for an old republican like me.
I hate the monarchy with every sinew in my body, but take some comfort, that after William, the monarchy will probably not exist any more.
I shall not be here to see it, unfortunately

'Hating the monarchy with every sinew in your body', I'm sure would not be healthy for your mental state of mind ? Be careful.
Maybe you should consider taking a holiday abroad whilst these sort of celebrations are taking place ?

Nothing in Australia, so much for her being the head of state

Maxy ( whoever he may be?) -seems to be even a bit more bitter & twisted today. Scotland's exit from the World Cup?

Friend or faux wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:01 pm Maxy ( whoever he may be?) -seems to be even a bit more bitter & twisted today. Scotland's exit from the World Cup?

No. How many times?

I have been a Brazil supporter since 1970. Followed them through thick and thin. Still recovering from Pele's retirement.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:17 am In a poll conducted at the last jubilee in 2012, 73% said they favoured the monarchy
Now that number is down to 62%, and among 18 to 24 years old it was only 33%, with another 33% favouring a republic So as the old un's die off, gradually they are being replaced with young republicans, which is good news for an old republican like me.
I hate the monarchy with every sinew in my body, but take some comfort, that after William, the monarchy will probably not exist any more.
I shall not be here to see it, unfortunately

Only this morning I heard on the radio that the Queen's approval rating was at 86% .How many politicians would give their two front teeth for an approval rating like that .Look, you can argue all you want about having a monarchy but the Queen herself was born into this role and IMO, has been flawless . It's a pity that some of her family have let her down , big time ( Andrew ).

Talking of Andrew, he has Covid and can’t attend the church service tomorrow

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:31 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:17 am In a poll conducted at the last jubilee in 2012, 73% said they favoured the monarchy
Now that number is down to 62%, and among 18 to 24 years old it was only 33%, with another 33% favouring a republic So as the old un's die off, gradually they are being replaced with young republicans, which is good news for an old republican like me.
I hate the monarchy with every sinew in my body, but take some comfort, that after William, the monarchy will probably not exist any more.
I shall not be here to see it, unfortunately

Only this morning I heard on the radio that the Queen's approval rating was at 86% .How many politicians would give their two front teeth for an approval rating like that .Look, you can argue all you want about having a monarchy but the Queen herself was born into this role and IMO, has been flawless . It's a pity that some of her family have let her down , big time ( Andrew ).

You’re comparing apples and oranges. The reason the queen has a high “approval rating” is because she is not in a position where she will regularly be making decisions that have a tangible impact on people, and that her actions when they do happen are not considered in terms of having a means by which we can actively contribute to trying to keep her in power or to remove her from power. She has pretty much refrained from publicly expressing any opinions about any political matter over her entire reign, so there isn’t really anything that would cause the approval to fluctuate

CEB wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:43 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:31 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:17 am In a poll conducted at the last jubilee in 2012, 73% said they favoured the monarchy
Now that number is down to 62%, and among 18 to 24 years old it was only 33%, with another 33% favouring a republic So as the old un's die off, gradually they are being replaced with young republicans, which is good news for an old republican like me.
I hate the monarchy with every sinew in my body, but take some comfort, that after William, the monarchy will probably not exist any more.
I shall not be here to see it, unfortunately

Only this morning I heard on the radio that the Queen's approval rating was at 86% .How many politicians would give their two front teeth for an approval rating like that .Look, you can argue all you want about having a monarchy but the Queen herself was born into this role and IMO, has been flawless . It's a pity that some of her family have let her down , big time ( Andrew ).

You’re comparing apples and oranges. The reason the queen has a high “approval rating” is because she is not in a position where she will regularly be making decisions that have a tangible impact on people, and that her actions when they do happen are not considered in terms of having a means by which we can actively contribute to trying to keep her in power or to remove her from power. She has pretty much refrained from publicly expressing any opinions about any political matter over her entire reign, so there isn’t really anything that would cause the approval to fluctuate

Other than interfering in the major constitutional issue of the Scotch independence vote I make you right.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:47 pm

CEB wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:43 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:31 pm

Only this morning I heard on the radio that the Queen's approval rating was at 86% .How many politicians would give their two front teeth for an approval rating like that .Look, you can argue all you want about having a monarchy but the Queen herself was born into this role and IMO, has been flawless . It's a pity that some of her family have let her down , big time ( Andrew ).

You’re comparing apples and oranges. The reason the queen has a high “approval rating” is because she is not in a position where she will regularly be making decisions that have a tangible impact on people, and that her actions when they do happen are not considered in terms of having a means by which we can actively contribute to trying to keep her in power or to remove her from power. She has pretty much refrained from publicly expressing any opinions about any political matter over her entire reign, so there isn’t really anything that would cause the approval to fluctuate

Other than interfering in the major constitutional issue of the Scotch independence vote I make you right.

Ah, I’ll correct it to “significant political matter”, then

Just about every species on earth has a hierarchal system. I am a pleb and the queen is the queen. No problem with that. It’s life.