Independent Leyton Orient Forum

As sad as it is to admit it, as promising as this season looked, it’s now clear that the current set up isn’t going to work out.

Something has to change. Someone has to go. Who should it be?

Theres a valid option of sacking both.

At minimum, Ling has run his course. He's got us back into the league but has clearly reached his potential as dof with us.

I think KJs experience should give him some more time, but between him, Ling and the committee, what they've put together squad wise with a decent budget for this level, is a bit of a disgrace.

I read somewhere on the socials KJ averages a 44% win rate over his career but it's down at 25% here. What makes Orient different?

If this appointment ultimately ends in another expensive failure surely have to look at making changes to the structure above the manager as something isn't working.

The club also has to be honest with fans, if they want to become a budget version of Crewe just focused on selling academy players to keep afloat don't try and pretend we're aiming to compete with the Salfords of the league.

As the season has gone on the academy and U23 signings seem to have become more of a focus than senior pros, which seems to be contributing to that disconnect between what the board are telling us and what we're seeing on the pitch.

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:49 am I read somewhere on the socials KJ averages a 44% win rate over his career but it's down at 25% here. What makes Orient different?

If this appointment ultimately ends in another expensive failure surely have to look at making changes to the structure above the manager as something isn't working.

The club also has to be honest with fans, if they want to become a budget version of Crewe just focused on selling academy players to keep afloat don't try and pretend we're aiming to compete with the Salfords of the league.

As the season has gone on the academy and U23 signings seem to have become more of a focus than senior pros, which seems to be contributing to that disconnect between what the board are telling us and what we're seeing on the pitch.

Poll updated after valid point raised by wumble.

I think the change in player being brought in is because we overspent in the summer, paying over the odds to get L1 standard players to come here. We’ve f*cked the budget so had to resort to drafting in kids.

I know who I pin that on.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:08 am As sad as it is to admit it, as promising as this season looked, it’s now clear that the current set up isn’t going to work out.

Something has to change. Someone has to go. Who should it be?

Need an option for all of the above. I'd clear decks in the summer. No issue if the club want to bring in another DoF in future if they are forward thinking and analytically minded.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:30 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:08 am As sad as it is to admit it, as promising as this season looked, it’s now clear that the current set up isn’t going to work out.

Something has to change. Someone has to go. Who should it be?

Need an option for all of the above. I'd clear decks in the summer. No issue if the club want to bring in a new DoF if tbey are forward thinking and analytically minded one.

Here he goes again, slating a club legend like Ling

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:49 am I read somewhere on the socials KJ averages a 44% win rate over his career but it's down at 25% here. What makes Orient different?

If this appointment ultimately ends in another expensive failure surely have to look at making changes to the structure above the manager as something isn't working.

The club also has to be honest with fans, if they want to become a budget version of Crewe just focused on selling academy players to keep afloat don't try and pretend we're aiming to compete with the Salfords of the league.

As the season has gone on the academy and U23 signings seem to have become more of a focus than senior pros, which seems to be contributing to that disconnect between what the board are telling us and what we're seeing on the pitch.

As desperate as you are to blame anyone other than Jackett, you're comparing his record in several hundred games across several seasons to half a season at Orient. I don't know if he has made strange tactical decisions at other clubs or what him and Gallen did with training at other clubs, but clearly he's made really poor tactical decisions of late and we don't look adequately prepared. He is absolutely responsible for those, irrespective of what else is happening elsewhere

And when we change the structure as you'd like, you'll just move onto something else to fixate on and blame anyway.

The current management set-up has delivered 6 managers, only one of which has worked out. That would suggest the system is at fault.

But to be fair, I don’t think anyone expected this appointment to turn out this badly. I was as excited as anyone when Jackett was appointed, I thought it was a real statement of intent, that we’d be top three for sure, to the point where I stuck a few quid on us winning the title and again on a top three finish. So I’m not sure that Ling can be entirely blamed for this one. But something has to change, and I think we need to have a clear-out and scrap the DoF role altogether, as i just can’t see what it brings.

As I said in earlier posts, I fully expected Jackett to be gone by today. Now I think, on reflection, we have three games in 8 days from next Saturday, two of which are at home, and I think any decision won’t be made before then. But as things stand I can’t see us getting more than a point.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:32 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:30 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:08 am As sad as it is to admit it, as promising as this season looked, it’s now clear that the current set up isn’t going to work out.

Something has to change. Someone has to go. Who should it be?

Need an option for all of the above. I'd clear decks in the summer. No issue if the club want to bring in a new DoF if tbey are forward thinking and analytically minded one.

Here he goes again, slating a club legend like Ling

Ooh you are naughty...but I like it

Squad isnt bad on paper, its the tactics and motivation that are our problem and that is down to Jackett and Gallen.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:12 pm Squad isnt bad on paper, its the tactics and motivation that are our problem and that is down to Jackett and Gallen.

That’s tosh.

Tactics - what else could have been done differently in say our last two games, given the players available?

Motivation - what was wrong with our motivation I either of our last two games? Absolutely nothing. We battled away really hard on Tuesday and up until the goal yesterday, when our fragile confidence snapped, we’d also looked well motivated.

I don’t believe anyone else would be able to get significantly more out of the players currently available.

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:49 am I read somewhere on the socials KJ averages a 44% win rate over his career but it's down at 25% here. What makes Orient different?

If this appointment ultimately ends in another expensive failure surely have to look at making changes to the structure above the manager as something isn't working.

The club also has to be honest with fans, if they want to become a budget version of Crewe just focused on selling academy players to keep afloat don't try and pretend we're aiming to compete with the Salfords of the league.

As the season has gone on the academy and U23 signings seem to have become more of a focus than senior pros, which seems to be contributing to that disconnect between what the board are telling us and what we're seeing on the pitch.

" What makes Orient different ". I'd say budget . Apart form Khan who does look a good player , why did we bring in youngsters and League Two squad players during the transfer window instead of league One or even Championship standard players on loan . Our rivals did and now they are doing much better . Could we not afford that standard type of player

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:12 pm Squad isnt bad on paper, its the tactics and motivation that are our problem and that is down to Jackett and Gallen.

The bloke I sit beside at the ground reckons the players look like they are playing with fear.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:53 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:12 pm Squad isnt bad on paper, its the tactics and motivation that are our problem and that is down to Jackett and Gallen.

The bloke I sit beside at the ground reckons the players look like they are playing with fear.

Fear, or just lack of confidence?.... they're probably the same thing..

Agree with others: I don't think the players lack motivation (although Harry Smith's performances stink). They gave absolutely everything at Exeter, so I don't buy the "lost the dressing room" schtick personally.

If, and it's a big if, that we are trying to 'do a Crewe' by focussing on young and academy players, then I'd be totally cool with that as long as the owners were upfront about it so that expectations could be managed..

Totally agreed, fear and lack of confidence are almost identical in this respect.

I also agree we’re not trying to do a ‘Crewe’ - we spent the summer signing experienced players from the division above. My guess is we overspent there, leaving us no choice but to go cheap this window.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:01 pm Totally agreed, fear and lack of confidence are almost identical in this respect.

I also agree we’re not trying to do a ‘Crewe’ - we spent the summer signing experienced players from the division above. My guess is we overspent there, leaving us no choice but to go cheap this window.

The budget itself would have been pretty decent at our level. No? It just wasn't used very well.

Nigel said that they gave an EXTRA 150k on top of whatever the transfer budget was before the injuries in Jan. mental how that sort of money has been spent…

Wait and see what the new CEO makes of them all....

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:34 pm Nigel said that they gave an EXTRA 150k on top of whatever the transfer budget was before the injuries in Jan. mental how that sort of money has been spent…

Exactly. I know we have a transfer committee but who has the final word on who we sign .? I think Coleman and Khan were decent signings but from what I’ve seen so far, Brown , Nouble and Ray have added nothing to what we already had.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:34 pm Nigel said that they gave an EXTRA 150k on top of whatever the transfer budget was before the injuries in Jan. mental how that sort of money has been spent…

Wow that’s shocking and very disappointing

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:00 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:34 pm Nigel said that they gave an EXTRA 150k on top of whatever the transfer budget was before the injuries in Jan. mental how that sort of money has been spent…

Exactly. I know we have a transfer committee but who has the final word on who we sign .? I think Coleman and Khan were decent signings but from what I’ve seen so far, Brown , Nouble and Ray have added nothing to what we already had.

Nouble & Ray were last minute, bargain basement, pound-land panic signings to fill spaces in the squad due to injuries, basically we signed 2 players no other clubs wanted.

Look at Colchester and Oldham, they are 2 clubs benefitting from good planning and a good transfer window and are both scoring and picking up points every game and have momentum.
You do your research
You work out what positions need strengthening
You work out what players are needed
You act early and get your work done early in the transfer window.
You put your money where your mouth is
You roll the dice, you get the rewards
Or like Leyton Orient
You do none of the above and wait until last minute and get Poundland signings no other club wanted.

And we wonder why this club is now in a relegation fight

Results show how dense the fanbase are

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:17 am Results show how dense the fanbase are

The results are very clear only 11% show that Jackett/Gallen should go but 37% show that Ling should go !!

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:34 pm Nigel said that they gave an EXTRA 150k on top of whatever the transfer budget was before the injuries in Jan. mental how that sort of money has been spent…

f*cking hell.

How much money are they going to keep throwing at Ling before they start questioning how it’s being spent?

No disrespect to either Nouble or Ray but come on, what was the point other than to simply get another body in for each of those positions. All last minute stuff too so you’d imagine they were the bottom of our long list of players for each position, if they were even in there in the first place. Desperate stuff.

I would sooner see a young kid on the bench instead of last minute panic signings like Ray & Nouble just to make up the numbers, seriously is that what we have become, a joke knee jerk panic buying club??

Signing a forward who doesn’t even have a scoring record to rate over last few seasons as he hasn’t scored!

The rest of L2 clubs must have laughed when they see this signing on deadline day.

I would like to say, sorry Frank, nothing personal, you must have thought all your Christmases and birthdays had come at once when we signed you, I hope you prove me wrong, but the bottom line is, you won’t and come the end of the season when you still haven’t scored you will be released.