Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Jack wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:10 pm The situation on the Russia/Ukraine border has been touched on, on other threads, but it deserves its own thread, so we can discuss it more.
I think its not bluster by the Russians, and they will attack.

When they do, what happens next. Ukraine has a largish army, twice the size of the British army, and they wont just fold up, though Russian superiority, will win in the end. There will be loss of life on both sides.

An interesting topic for me, is what will the West do, or what will America do?

When Putin grabbed Crimea, the yanks did very little. A few sanctions etc, but nothing too severe. Will they do much the same, or will they react more strongly, by sending forces into Ukraine to help them etc

Putin may well attack on Christmas Day, when the West is indulging in Christmas celebrations.

So what does everyone think?

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:08 pm I'm a Champagne Socialist, and am Head of Knowing Things for the Government. I have qualifications in Expense Account Mastery and one of my hobbies is evading Thor's connection requests on LinkedIn.

I can't say anymore as otherwise it might get this place shut down. Best leave it there.

Jack wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:10 pm The situation on the Russia/Ukraine border has been touched on, on other threads, but it deserves its own thread, so we can discuss it more.
I think its not bluster by the Russians, and they will attack.

When they do, what happens next. Ukraine has a largish army, twice the size of the British army, and they wont just fold up, though Russian superiority, will win in the end. There will be loss of life on both sides.

An interesting topic for me, is what will the West do, or what will America do?

When Putin grabbed Crimea, the yanks did very little. A few sanctions etc, but nothing too severe. Will they do much the same, or will they react more strongly, by sending forces into Ukraine to help them etc

Putin may well attack on Christmas Day, when the West is indulging in Christmas celebrations.

So what does everyone think?

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:00 pm I actually work in housing policy, and for my sins I have to work closely with government bods and MPs. This introduces me to lots of interesting people and gossip from across departments, especially as we have lots of, erm.. "business meetings".

Aside from that I do a lot of reading in areas of personal interest and hobbies. I also drink and know things. I'm quite sad and, if it wasn't for boardin, I'd be that bloke sat at the bar who bores your ears off when you have to come up and get a round in.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:09 pm I'm reading Putins People at the moment.

The central thesis is that the old KGB run Russia, are angry that they lost their Empire and are hell bent on rebuilding it. This is according to any number of unattributable sources and anonymous grasses that Catherine Belton continually relies on as evidence.

Their methods haven't changed much since Stalins days. But advances in media technology give them more scope to fake stuff and spread lies and instability. I looked at how the GRU/KGB operated in the Spanish Revolution and the Cold War and I'm struck by the similarities.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:36 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:09 pm I'm reading Putins People at the moment.

The central thesis is that the old KGB run Russia, are angry that they lost their Empire and are hell bent on rebuilding it. This is according to any number of unattributable sources and anonymous grasses that Catherine Belton continually relies on as evidence.

Their methods haven't changed much since Stalins days. But advances in media technology give them more scope to fake stuff and spread lies and instability. I looked at how the GRU/KGB operated in the Spanish Revolution and the Cold War and I'm struck by the similarities.

You mentioned this before, so I got myself a copy and have just started reading it. I get the gist is that it's a mafia state but, whatever the regime, geography, access to warm water ports and other determining factors will surely always compel Russia to expand into its previous empire territories.

Anyway, if I had to put money on an outcome, I'd still go for a negotiated settlement that prevents an invasion for now. But only just. The US and NATO will sacrifice Ukraine if necessary. But there's no way we can accept Russia's demands to revert NATO positions back to their 1997 equivalent.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:20 pm Oh, Max mentioned it...

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:09 pm I'm reading Putins People at the moment.

The central thesis is that the old KGB run Russia, are angry that they lost their Empire and are hell bent on rebuilding it. This is according to any number of unattributable sources and anonymous grasses that Catherine Belton continually relies on as evidence.

Their methods haven't changed much since Stalins days. But advances in media technology give them more scope to fake stuff and spread lies and instability. I looked at how the GRU/KGB operated in the Spanish Revolution and the Cold War and I'm struck by the similarities.