Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Vigoroux - 6. Did what he needed to when called upon but distribution wasn't great.
James - 7. Best player today, made some good blocks and was generally tidy
Ogie - 6. Has a lot of talent but needs to learn when to simplify things a bit as he runs himself into trouble too regularly.
Beckles - 7 didn't do much wrong
Mitchell - 6. Like him but needs to work on his distribution. Walsall were happy for him to have the ball as there was always a good chance he'd knock the ball aimlessly long
Wood - 6. Was ok, surprised to see him taken off when we went to 4-3-3.
Pratley - 5. Distribution was toilet, got done physically a lot in the first half
Hector - 4. Contributed nothing, total passenger.
Archibald - 4. Had a mare, leave it at that.
Smith - 5. Actually won a fair bit in the air but never looked like scoring.
Ruel - 4. Another passenger in the first half. Don't think he works as a winger.

Clay - 5. Made us more solid in middle of park but has sod all technical talent in final third. Touch was abysmal.
Smyth - 6. Busy and completely let down by ref. Should start Tuesday.
Kemp - 5. Didn't make an impression in the limited time he had.

Ref - -10. A stinker for the ages. At least 3 incidences where he took a blatant foul on an Os player and gave it the other way, the worst of which saw Ruel get poleaxed from behind and somehow gave a foul to Walsall. His poor management of the game obviously put the players off their stride.

Jackett - 5. Changed things up but the going long 9/10 times the ball is at a centre backs feet was maddening as clearly wasn't working.

The perennial problem when you have a big bloke up front is trying to stop the centre halves just lumping it up to him. We did a lot of lumping today. It can be fine if your centre halves have some finesse on the pass but we just aimlessly kicked it away over and over. Not sure what our identity is at the moment. We also started slowly for the third match running.
Vigoroux. 6. One decent ish save but generally both goalkeepers had almost nothing to do.
Wood. 5. Two poor games in a row and was taken off at half time.
Ogie.5. Probably just a coincidence rather than planned by Walsall but he was the one that was always left with the ball to take out of defence. His passing ( lumping it up to Smith) was all over the place.
Beccles. 6. Best of the centre halves.
Mitchell. 5.5. Looked nervous this week and a few mistakes.
James. 6. Not much impact.
Ruel. 5. Completely anonymous.
Hector. 6. Always gets better as the game goes on so the question is, why does he start half asleep every week.
Pratley. 5.5. Ran around and got stuck in. It’s a job that looks ugly if the rest of the team are not creating anything like today.
Archibald. 5. Had an absolute stinkerrooney. Looks to be a typical winger in terms of inconsistency. In the premier league they have 3 good games then 1 poor one. In league two,3 poor games and 1 good one.
Smith. 6. I mean he didn’t play badly but having him on the pitch means lower league players which is ultimately what we have, can’t resist the urge to whack it up to him as hard as possible and it takes away from what should be our better ability than most league two teams on the floor.

Subs. Clay. 6. Steady. Smyth. 7. MOM. Going to be a great player for us. He needs to tell the rest of the team to stop wellying it up to our forwards in the air. He is tiny and he must have had to make 10 Aerial challenges in 45 minutes. Some lovely skills when he finally got it to feet.

Jacket. 5.5. Started slowly again. What has happened to our flowing football.

Walsall. 6.5. Thought they were decent.

Ref. 2. Dear e me.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:13 pm Vigoroux - 6. Did what he needed to when called upon but distribution wasn't great.
James - 7. Best player today, made some good blocks and was generally tidy
Ogie - 6. Has a lot of talent but needs to learn when to simplify things a bit as he runs himself into trouble too regularly.
Beckles - 7 didn't do much wrong
Mitchell - 6. Like him but needs to work on his distribution. Walsall were happy for him to have the ball as there was always a good chance he'd knock the ball aimlessly long
Wood - 6. Was ok, surprised to see him taken off when we went to 4-3-3.
Pratley - 5. Distribution was toilet, got done physically a lot in the first half
Hector - 4. Contributed nothing, total passenger.
Archibald - 4. Had a mare, leave it at that.
Smith - 5. Actually won a fair bit in the air but never looked like scoring.
Ruel - 4. Another passenger in the first half. Don't think he works as a winger.

Clay - 5. Made us more solid in middle of park but has sod all technical talent in final third. Touch was abysmal.
Smyth - 6. Busy and completely let down by ref. Should start Tuesday.
Kemp - 5. Didn't make an impression in the limited time he had.

Ref - -10. A stinker for the ages. At least 3 incidences where he took a blatant foul on an Os player and gave it the other way, the worst of which saw Ruel get poleaxed from behind and somehow gave a foul to Walsall. His poor management of the game obviously put the players off their stride.

Jackett - 5. Changed things up but the going long 9/10 times the ball is at a centre backs feet was maddening as clearly wasn't working.

''Ruel - 4. Another passenger in the first half. Don't think he works as a winger.''
Since WHEN did Ruel ever cut the mustard as a winger, tried so many times in the past on the wing and rarely to ever comes off.
AS i recall, we played 4-4-2 just the once with Ruel playing up front alongside Harry Smith, we won, it worked and then for some reason we changed to the three at the back and its not working now is it !

Can’t be arsed to comment.

It's a mystery to me too. Ruel is surely, only going to be effective in a 4-4-2 set up. The team looked disjointed. It was a shambles.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:13 pm Vigoroux - 6. Did what he needed to when called upon but distribution wasn't great.
James - 7. Best player today, made some good blocks and was generally tidy
Ogie - 6. Has a lot of talent but needs to learn when to simplify things a bit as he runs himself into trouble too regularly.
Beckles - 7 didn't do much wrong
Mitchell - 6. Like him but needs to work on his distribution. Walsall were happy for him to have the ball as there was always a good chance he'd knock the ball aimlessly long
Wood - 6. Was ok, surprised to see him taken off when we went to 4-3-3.
Pratley - 5. Distribution was toilet, got done physically a lot in the first half
Hector - 4. Contributed nothing, total passenger.
Archibald - 4. Had a mare, leave it at that.
Smith - 5. Actually won a fair bit in the air but never looked like scoring.
Ruel - 4. Another passenger in the first half. Don't think he works as a winger.

Clay - 5. Made us more solid in middle of park but has sod all technical talent in final third. Touch was abysmal.
Smyth - 6. Busy and completely let down by ref. Should start Tuesday.
Kemp - 5. Didn't make an impression in the limited time he had.

Ref - -10. A stinker for the ages. At least 3 incidences where he took a blatant foul on an Os player and gave it the other way, the worst of which saw Ruel get poleaxed from behind and somehow gave a foul to Walsall. His poor management of the game obviously put the players off their stride.

Jackett - 5. Changed things up but the going long 9/10 times the ball is at a centre backs feet was maddening as clearly wasn't working.

I think these marks are very generous.....dont think anyone deserved above a 5. Ref should be added another minus. Worst I've EVER seen.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:51 pm Can’t be arsed to comment.

Dohnut your stats on Smith must be through the roof today for headers won?

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:19 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:13 pm Vigoroux - 6. Did what he needed to when called upon but distribution wasn't great.
James - 7. Best player today, made some good blocks and was generally tidy
Ogie - 6. Has a lot of talent but needs to learn when to simplify things a bit as he runs himself into trouble too regularly.
Beckles - 7 didn't do much wrong
Mitchell - 6. Like him but needs to work on his distribution. Walsall were happy for him to have the ball as there was always a good chance he'd knock the ball aimlessly long
Wood - 6. Was ok, surprised to see him taken off when we went to 4-3-3.
Pratley - 5. Distribution was toilet, got done physically a lot in the first half
Hector - 4. Contributed nothing, total passenger.
Archibald - 4. Had a mare, leave it at that.
Smith - 5. Actually won a fair bit in the air but never looked like scoring.
Ruel - 4. Another passenger in the first half. Don't think he works as a winger.

Clay - 5. Made us more solid in middle of park but has sod all technical talent in final third. Touch was abysmal.
Smyth - 6. Busy and completely let down by ref. Should start Tuesday.
Kemp - 5. Didn't make an impression in the limited time he had.

Ref - -10. A stinker for the ages. At least 3 incidences where he took a blatant foul on an Os player and gave it the other way, the worst of which saw Ruel get poleaxed from behind and somehow gave a foul to Walsall. His poor management of the game obviously put the players off their stride.

Jackett - 5. Changed things up but the going long 9/10 times the ball is at a centre backs feet was maddening as clearly wasn't working.

''Ruel - 4. Another passenger in the first half. Don't think he works as a winger.''
Since WHEN did Ruel ever cut the mustard as a winger, tried so many times in the past on the wing and rarely to ever comes off.
AS i recall, we played 4-4-2 just the once with Ruel playing up front alongside Harry Smith, we won, it worked and then for some reason we changed to the three at the back and its not working now is it !

442 isn’t fashionable theses days so let’s stay with the 343 or 433 and win bugger all or draw every game. Here’s a thought, play Ruel alongside Smith in a front two. Just a suggestion

As for starting slowly I'm not sure that's correct. I thought the first 10-15 mins we were moving the ball quickly and looked like we wanted it, were up for it and had the desire to take it on.

Then it went to pot.

Ruel just got completely out muscled by their huge defenders today, but that’s the way it is in League 2. Not sure that he is ever really going to make it.

Most of what I would say is in amongst the other comments except for Tom James. His outstanding block when you'd bet the house they were going to score makes him my MOTM for that alone.

Hard to extract any positives - except for Smyth. His persistence set an example and he looks technically very sound - a) if he's allowed to play and b) if referees protect him when obviously fouled and bundled off the ball. Today's referee reminded me of Bizarro world in the Superman comics where everything was reversed. He was clearly in a parallel universe and reffing a game completely different to what was being played out at the Breyer Stadium

Dead right about the James block. He saved us a point,

Also thought we started with purpose for a change in a match ruined by a hapless ref. The second half was pure chaos and if Walsall had a player who could score we would have lost the game, given the number of chances they had on the break.

Vigouroux - 7 probably our best player, good save from Wilkinson and dominated his area
Wood - 6 - thought he had a good first half on a crowded left hand side before he came off
Ogie - 5.5 - looked incredibly naïve with some of the things he was doing in the first half and didn't look like a LB in the second half
Beckles - 6 - did okay against a toothless attack
Mitchell - 6 - same as Beckles
James - 6 - didn't get forward enough in the first half where everything was on the other side. Couldn't get forward in the second half
Pratley - 5 - outnumbered in the middle in a war of attrition
Kyprianou - 5.5 - tried to do more than win the ball in the middle but it was hard work
Archibald - 5 - is on a poor run at the moment
Smith - 5.5 - KJ forgets that Smith is very good at holding up a ball and bringing others into the game. Wasted as the bloke who does the flick ons
Sotiriou - 5 - KJ was right to start him to not undermine him giving the form he is in but he looked like a child amongst men out there. Really only an impact sub

Clay - 4 - obviously brought on to win the midfield battles but he is such a basic player and looked it (nearly gave a goal away)
Smyth - 6.5 - full of beans and should be one of our starting front three

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:13 pm
Archibald - 4. Had a mare, leave it at that.

Agreed but he was played in that spot behind the front 2 today and that’s clearly not his position. He’s not going to play a killer pass and his pace is wasted.

(Saying that, he wasn’t much better when we went 4-4-2 second half and he did go out to the left wing).

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:19 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:13 pm Vigoroux - 6. Did what he needed to when called upon but distribution wasn't great.
James - 7. Best player today, made some good blocks and was generally tidy
Ogie - 6. Has a lot of talent but needs to learn when to simplify things a bit as he runs himself into trouble too regularly.
Beckles - 7 didn't do much wrong
Mitchell - 6. Like him but needs to work on his distribution. Walsall were happy for him to have the ball as there was always a good chance he'd knock the ball aimlessly long
Wood - 6. Was ok, surprised to see him taken off when we went to 4-3-3.
Pratley - 5. Distribution was toilet, got done physically a lot in the first half
Hector - 4. Contributed nothing, total passenger.
Archibald - 4. Had a mare, leave it at that.
Smith - 5. Actually won a fair bit in the air but never looked like scoring.
Ruel - 4. Another passenger in the first half. Don't think he works as a winger.

Clay - 5. Made us more solid in middle of park but has sod all technical talent in final third. Touch was abysmal.
Smyth - 6. Busy and completely let down by ref. Should start Tuesday.
Kemp - 5. Didn't make an impression in the limited time he had.

Ref - -10. A stinker for the ages. At least 3 incidences where he took a blatant foul on an Os player and gave it the other way, the worst of which saw Ruel get poleaxed from behind and somehow gave a foul to Walsall. His poor management of the game obviously put the players off their stride.

Jackett - 5. Changed things up but the going long 9/10 times the ball is at a centre backs feet was maddening as clearly wasn't working.

''Ruel - 4. Another passenger in the first half. Don't think he works as a winger.''
Since WHEN did Ruel ever cut the mustard as a winger, tried so many times in the past on the wing and rarely to ever comes off.
AS i recall, we played 4-4-2 just the once with Ruel playing up front alongside Harry Smith, we won, it worked and then for some reason we changed to the three at the back and its not working now is it !

Agree. We need to play Ruel up top. Give him a ten game run and see if he’s up to it or not. It’s not benefiting us or him by shocking him out wide.

So was wood subbed due to the change in formation? Cos he was having a sh*t game? Or because he gave it to Kenny at half time again?

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:13 pm
Ruel - 4. Another passenger in the first half. Don't think he works as a winger.

He wasn’t playing as a winger, he was up top in a pair alongside Smith. He’d been looking good, earnt his chance, Jackett changed the team up to accommodate him then he throws in a performance like that.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:07 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:19 pm

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:13 pm Vigoroux - 6. Did what he needed to when called upon but distribution wasn't great.
James - 7. Best player today, made some good blocks and was generally tidy
Ogie - 6. Has a lot of talent but needs to learn when to simplify things a bit as he runs himself into trouble too regularly.
Beckles - 7 didn't do much wrong
Mitchell - 6. Like him but needs to work on his distribution. Walsall were happy for him to have the ball as there was always a good chance he'd knock the ball aimlessly long
Wood - 6. Was ok, surprised to see him taken off when we went to 4-3-3.
Pratley - 5. Distribution was toilet, got done physically a lot in the first half
Hector - 4. Contributed nothing, total passenger.
Archibald - 4. Had a mare, leave it at that.
Smith - 5. Actually won a fair bit in the air but never looked like scoring.
Ruel - 4. Another passenger in the first half. Don't think he works as a winger.

Clay - 5. Made us more solid in middle of park but has sod all technical talent in final third. Touch was abysmal.
Smyth - 6. Busy and completely let down by ref. Should start Tuesday.
Kemp - 5. Didn't make an impression in the limited time he had.

Ref - -10. A stinker for the ages. At least 3 incidences where he took a blatant foul on an Os player and gave it the other way, the worst of which saw Ruel get poleaxed from behind and somehow gave a foul to Walsall. His poor management of the game obviously put the players off their stride.

Jackett - 5. Changed things up but the going long 9/10 times the ball is at a centre backs feet was maddening as clearly wasn't working.

''Ruel - 4. Another passenger in the first half. Don't think he works as a winger.''
Since WHEN did Ruel ever cut the mustard as a winger, tried so many times in the past on the wing and rarely to ever comes off.
AS i recall, we played 4-4-2 just the once with Ruel playing up front alongside Harry Smith, we won, it worked and then for some reason we changed to the three at the back and its not working now is it !

Agree. We need to play Ruel up top. Give him a ten game run and see if he’s up to it or not. It’s not benefiting us or him by shocking him out wide.

But Ruel was up top (mostly).

We got things wrong today.

Presumably we knew they were going to try and play out from the back like that, so we needed the work rate of Drinnan and Archibald and/or Smyth to stop them. Smith just isnt mobile enough to do that, Ruel isn’t that sort of striker either.

At half time we should have brought Drinnan on for Smith and played him down the middle, with Archibald and Smyth alongside him. Going 4-4-2 with Clay as the right winger means we’re not going to play any football and resort to the long ball pumped to Smith.

We need an experienced CM alongside Pratley. We need someone who can play the point of the midfield 3 (that’s not Archibald or Kemp, but could be Smyth I guess). We need Jackett to realise Smith isn’t a guaranteed starter every week.

Smith needs a rest on Tuesday, by the way.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:13 pm
Ref - -10. A stinker for the ages. At least 3 incidences where he took a blatant foul on an Os player and gave it the other way, the worst of which saw Ruel get poleaxed from behind and somehow gave a foul to Walsall. His poor management of the game obviously put the players off their stride.

That particular incident, their bloke went through the side of Ruel and it was obviously a free kick (no more than that). But as Ruel was laying on the floor, he then fouled their bloke as he tried to move away from the ball.

We seem to have a missed a memo about what’s allowed and what’s not this season. Refs are definitely allowing more physicality than last season, we need to get wise as to what we can get away with as it’s costing us.

The worst foul of the game was Smyth going through their bloke as they headed towards the south east corner, after Smyth had been fouled, and the ref left both go then wonders why there’s a massive flare up after.

Since we’ve changed the nets we haven’t scored if that’s not a sign I don’t know what is. Get them changed back