Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Anyone else been watching this?

There'll always be some degree of bias and glossing over of details, but I think it's as good an account as you're likely to get. The ruthlessness of Blair really comes through, however it's hard to imagine any of it happening with him in the driving seat. It does challenge the narrative that the John Smith-led party was going to win the next election without breaking a sweat.

I'm about half way through on iPlayer, but so far what has struck me the most is just how seriously good that 1997-2001 government was. Nothing that has come since bares any comparison.

Sorry, I was busy when that was on.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:16 pm Sorry, I was busy when that was on.

Liar. I've already searched your posts and can see that, at the time this was broadcast (9.00pm on Monday), you were pissing about on here posting laughing emojis...

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:28 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:10 pm they're basically being held hostage

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:16 pm Anyone else been watching this?

There'll always be some degree of bias and glossing over of details, but I think it's as good an account as you're likely to get. The ruthlessness of Blair really comes through, however it's hard to imagine any of it happening with him in the driving seat. It does challenge the narrative that the John Smith-led party was going to win the next election without breaking a sweat.

I'm about half way through on iPlayer, but so far what has struck me the most is just how seriously good that 1997-2001 government was. Nothing that has come since bares any comparison.

I have always felt that David Cameron modelled himself on Tony Blair, but never came close. These days Blair seems to have a greater affection from those outside the labour party than those within. I suppose that's why labour won successive elections. His image today is tarnished by Iran and the WMD issue, but what's forgotten is what primarily he and Gordon Brown tried to do about changing the society we live in today. Ignore the degree to which they succeeded, but he/they tried more than successive governments up to today.

I don't know enough about him but Andy Burnham strikes me as someone who'd care about society generally. Just about the only politician around today that I think that about.

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:16 pm Anyone else been watching this?

There'll always be some degree of bias and glossing over of details, but I think it's as good an account as you're likely to get. The ruthlessness of Blair really comes through, however it's hard to imagine any of it happening with him in the driving seat. It does challenge the narrative that the John Smith-led party was going to win the next election without breaking a sweat.

well, that's because they glossed over the huge polling leads that the Smith-led Labour Party had in 1993/94 because it didn't fit the Blair-centred story

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:16 pm Anyone else been watching this?

There'll always be some degree of bias and glossing over of details, but I think it's as good an account as you're likely to get. The ruthlessness of Blair really comes through, however it's hard to imagine any of it happening with him in the driving seat. It does challenge the narrative that the John Smith-led party was going to win the next election without breaking a sweat.

I'm about half way through on iPlayer, but so far what has struck me the most is just how seriously good that 1997-2001 government was. Nothing that has come since bares any comparison.

Watched Monday's episode and, as you say, the ruthlessness of Blair is laid bare. Throw in the slime that is Mandelson (Rasputin in another age) and Brown didn't have a hope of getting the top job. Labour were always going to go with Sure Start etc but needed to get elected and the gloss that is Blair (interchangeable with Cameron) got them over the line. Brown never had the charisma that the electorate want and his role during the world banking crisis is strangely overlooked. The contrast between the post-Westminster careers of Brown and the multi-millionaire Blair are also pretty stark as well.

I been watching it, and enjoying it. But I feel it is biased towards Blair. I have a good memory and the media really loved Smith and he was the guy that put Labour back on the map. I reckon it shows up Blair as being a chancer and also shows Alastair Campbell & Mandy as two righty dodgy geezers. Gordon Brown I see as being much more laid back. He comes across as a more honest and sincere bloke. They try and give him to be impatient in getting the top job, but he says he became suspicious of Blair's Tory like antics. When I look back at that era, I see alright Blair changed the Labour Party, but I don't see any lasting legacies that improved the country. Unlike Clement Atlee's Government

I suppose as long as you bear in mind the pair of them are total kunts its chewing gum for the eyes.

Huge majority in 1997 = no perceptible shift in power or inequality in the UK. Compare that to what scumbag Tories are doing now.

jamespevans wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:14 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:16 pm Anyone else been watching this?

There'll always be some degree of bias and glossing over of details, but I think it's as good an account as you're likely to get. The ruthlessness of Blair really comes through, however it's hard to imagine any of it happening with him in the driving seat. It does challenge the narrative that the John Smith-led party was going to win the next election without breaking a sweat.

I'm about half way through on iPlayer, but so far what has struck me the most is just how seriously good that 1997-2001 government was. Nothing that has come since bares any comparison.

Watched Monday's episode and, as you say, the ruthlessness of Blair is laid bare. Throw in the slime that is Mandelson (Rasputin in another age) and Brown didn't have a hope of getting the top job. Labour were always going to go with Sure Start etc but needed to get elected and the gloss that is Blair (interchangeable with Cameron) got them over the line. Brown never had the charisma that the electorate want and his role during the world banking crisis is strangely overlooked. The contrast between the post-Westminster careers of Brown and the multi-millionaire Blair are also pretty stark as well.

Heh. Mandelson almost came across in a more sympathetic light, I thought. But then it would be difficult for him to come over much worse than what most of us remember. I think Cameron was a poor imitation of Blair, and disagree that they were interchangeable. Cameron could never have influenced the Conservative party in the way Blair did with labour.

There was one clip, just after Blair won his leadership contest (but before the election) when we was on stage at a conference for the first time as leader. While he was preparing to talk he just looked out at the crowd and shot one of his trademark smiles. At that moment the confidence and charisma totally owned the room. He just knew he was going to win and be Prime Minister.

Brown never had that. Cameron never had it. Boris, despite his ability to connect with certain sections of the public, isn't even that relaxed in his own skin. In those earlier years, Blair had a balance of humour, intellect and ruthlessness that I think can only be equalled by Bill Clinton.

I've not watched as far as the banking crisis yet, but at that point Brown was in his element, so it's a shame is that is overlooked. There probably wasn't a world leader who was better suited to the task than he was and remember at the time noticing how many other world leaders just fell into line. But he displayed poor political judgement to his own cost in the end. He got his chance at the top job, but too late.

Completely agree with your point on the contrast in both their careers since.

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:25 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:16 pm Sorry, I was busy when that was on.

Liar. I've already searched your posts and can see that, at the time this was broadcast (9.00pm on Monday), you were pissing about on here posting laughing emojis...

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:28 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:10 pm they're basically being held hostage

CEB was running this account on Monday night, so ha.

Was a good watch and brought back many memories, even where I was when I heard the news that John Smith had died - Publications Centre, Nine Elms for the record. Plenty of politicians from the past there too, who were but a distant memory until the programme.

One thing which struck me from it was what a star Brown was in his younger years, the memory of his poor PM performance perhaps unfairly dominates, albeit I’ll always be grateful to him for keeping us out the Euro.

I am enjoying this. In the day I really wanted to punch Blair so I guess I was very tory. However have just joined the Labour party as I think Bojo and co are so poor.

Back to the topic, it underlines where Corbyn and Miliband went wrong-be New labour, get power then stick in a few leftie policies, don't promote them before an election. Ironically I think, on performance, the Tories should have lost the 1992 election but won in 1997-guess we all want a change after a while

Don't think Starmer has the charisma of Blair. I think Rachel Reeves could be their best chance but more likely not next time round

I’m waiting for Dunnem to start a reappraisal of Nick Clegg next. Has the ginger one been hacked by NU?

(I’ve not watched this yet).

The political equivalent of Killing Eve- great first series then got worse and worse.

Done the first three. Really interesting. Reminded me why I was so supportive of Blair at the time.

slacker wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:53 pm I’m waiting for Dunnem to start a reappraisal of Nick Clegg next. Has the ginger one been hacked by NU?

(I’ve not watched this yet).

The Cameron one is the one im looking forward to

The Dave Cameron F*cked It Trilogy .

I F*cked a Pigs Head . ( The Bullingdon Club )
I F*cked My Parents dodgy dealing ( the panama papers )
I F*cked the UK then legged it ( The Brexit Thing ) .

The 1st one Will be on Adult tv only ,
then the following 2 are on the BBC ( Bloody Blue C#nservatives ).

The makers of the program missed out this nugget:

Former PM Tony Blair was keen on Wimbledon FC relocating to Belfast

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67832071

OyinbO wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:49 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:16 pm Anyone else been watching this?

There'll always be some degree of bias and glossing over of details, but I think it's as good an account as you're likely to get. The ruthlessness of Blair really comes through, however it's hard to imagine any of it happening with him in the driving seat. It does challenge the narrative that the John Smith-led party was going to win the next election without breaking a sweat.

well, that's because they glossed over the huge polling leads that the Smith-led Labour Party had in 1993/94 because it didn't fit the Blair-centred story

In my opinion Smith would have been a better Prime Minster than both Blair and Brown put together . It was a real tragedy for the country that he died before he had the chance to prove it .

LittleMate wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:34 pm ....

I have always felt that David Cameron modelled himself on Tony Blair, but never came close. T....

Blair, Cameron, now Starmer etc have all realised that to win an election, you need to gain the centre ground. No matter what the Hard Left / Right may shout, the country is largely conservative ( small "c") and most peoples views are not very different, falling in a narrow range either side of the centre position.

Corbyn was the most popular leader with "the Left" but at the ballot box was a disaster. Same was true of the Tories after they moved to the right under Later Thatcher/ Major - they were unelectable.

Starmer has been very clever in not saying much that can be controversial to the country at large, knowing by this strategy he will pick up those in the middle ground who voted Tory previously. Starmer may well have upset those on the left of the labour party, but they are electorally irrelevant as its the middle ground voters that determine elections

Just remember the feel good factor when Blair won a clear majority and the lapsed smiles of Mellor, Portillo etc. Priceless.