Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Is coming under pressure and a possible investigation having suspended withdrawals from his fund. Oh dear that’s not good.

Now I read that councils are skint, need cash, government starves them etc. Yet Kent CC tried and failed to withdraw £263m, now that’s a lot of money and I thought wow that could bring them down if they can’t turn it liquid if required quickly for example. Then I learnt a lesson in how we might be being lied to by the councils. Council leader Paul Carter said and I quote “'The money invested in Woodford represents about 4 per cent of our total pot of £6.5billion invested” holly molly that’s a serious amount of wonga, we are being played for fools.

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:43 am Is coming under pressure and a possible investigation having suspended withdrawals from his fund. Oh dear that’s not good.

Now I read that councils are skint, need cash, government starves them etc. Yet Kent CC tried and failed to withdraw £263m, now that’s a lot of money and I thought wow that could bring them down if they can’t turn it liquid if required quickly for example. Then I learnt a lesson in how we might be being lied to by the councils. Council leader Paul Carter said and I quote “'The money invested in Woodford represents about 4 per cent of our total pot of £6.5billion invested” holly molly that’s a serious amount of wonga, we are being played for fools.

Woodford failed because people have less faith in the markets and gurus like him these days.

You need to explain further why we are being played for fools.

Woodford failed because he moved away from his proven formula that was built up over a sustained period. When he went out on his own he got such an influx of money that he felt compelled to spend/invest it. Ended up speculating and right now he can't back a winner in a 2 horse race.

As for KCC, whilst they have large sums of money (as many councils do) they are not allowed to spend it as freely as we'd like them to and so they end up investing it.

LittleMate wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:09 am Woodford failed because he moved away from his proven formula that was built up over a sustained period. When he went out on his own he got such an influx of money that he felt compelled to spend/invest it. Ended up speculating and right now he can't back a winner in a 2 horse race.

Yeah that and a lack of faith in the invisible hand of the market to deliver the goodies.

It wasn't a compulsion to spend excess money it was a switch in strategy to move away from the index linked formula that made his name at Invesco into unquoted smaller companies where he believed he could spot the next best thing in various sectors.

He couldn't because it's difficult to predict which of these types of companies will be the next best thing. Especially when all you are is an investment manager with no real knowledge of the industry's they operate in.

The Kent millions are part of the pension fund, so not exactly the same as taxpayer monies.

I think this has been overblown a bit. Many funds suffer volatile performances year-to-year, but over the longer term generate returns. Anyone investing in this for a few years would be not be out by a lot given the paltry interest rates we have seen. The fund gained 15% but has given it all back and more, that is a bad situation but not exactly uncommon.

In some ways it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. News drives negative sentiment, which drives further negative sentiment, which also depresses share prices on the components because it is anticipated there will be large positions to unwind.

Looking at the actual shares it has invested in is quite a surprise. The major part of the fund is heavily exposed to property, debt-laden giants in mature to declining segments (AA, Imperial Brands), no surprise it has done badly. Perhaps his real advantage over private investors is that he can take stakes in smaller, unquoted companies with information that is hard to get, but it seems unlikely they will turn out to be big winners now as he is being muscled off them.

The real damage will be reputational, who would invest with him now? Seems a shame as he has consistently beaten the markets but the consensus now is that he has lost his touch.

Woodford strayed far from what he was good at which was high dividend and stable Uk companies. He has big stakes in U.S biotech companies that don’t make a bean and the only drugs they have are in various stages of development that don’t have FDA approval. You are sitting there investing in what you think is a good and steady retirement fund and Woodford is gambling with your money with companies with debt and no income that are not even based in the Uk.

It’s been announced that his fund is to be wound down and liquidated. The administrators will look start refunding people from Jan 2020.

Spent too much time having to run his own business rather than concentrating on what had made him successful. Questionable purchases after things started to hit the rocks. Happened before and will happen again in business, buyer beware.

I thought this was Fletchers first quick fire signing.

Having a very poorly, thought through portfolio was one of the main issues.

Too many illiquid or unquoted shares, where he was the major shareholder, is rarely going to work. This was signalled 2 years ago.

For example - rm2 (owned 29%), maker of plastic pallets which you can follow - cost £60, against £5 for the traditional wooden pallet. This not surprisingly has gone to the wall. There are many others like this.

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:25 pm Having a very poorly, thought through portfolio was one of the main issues.

Hang on this man was a Top Stock Picker. Did he just loose his touch or did he get greedy taking more risk to achieve higher returns with other people's money.

Greedy. Took on too much risk.

Might not have been too much risk more like he took on the wrong risk strategy, which failed.

On Panarama tonight, sounds as if he could have broken a few rules to say the least.

Buffet is holding more cash than stock at the moment. Tells you all you need to know on the future direction of the market