Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:43 pm**

Im from a generation where Championship/prem equivalent football was the norm. Always hoped for a return to those days. Recent times with the Little Leyton Orient label and two years in the NL I’ve started to modify my aspirations. Realistically we are a L1 club at best. Maybe the odd flirtation with the Championship but L1 is our level at best. Can’t believe how excited I am with League 2 (division 4) football

Despite the best efforts of Teague and Travis, which are fantastic, I cannot see us as anything more that a decent L1 side. Whilst we may develop the playing side our ground is L1 and will always be the limiting factor

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:48 pm**

I just want to see us play in the championship in my lifetime. Considering we were so close, it’s not unattainable.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:52 pm**

Who knows what the future holds?

I’m fairly confident that the worst is now behind us. I honestly can’t see us in the conference ever again (unless something catastrophic happens).

I’d settle for a decade of L2/L1 football. A promotion to league 1 thrown in there. Establishing ourselves as a top half L1 club by 2029 would be a success in my eyes, with a push for championship status in the decade which follows.

Personally, I’d prefer a much slower, stable progression up the pyramid rather than yo-yoing up and down the lower leagues.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:54 pm**

I’m from the same generation, remember us winning the old Division Three, getting almighty close to top flight football only a few years later, not forgetting a cup semi-final too, and we were the longest serving team in the second tier for a few seasons before our relegation. So that was for me the norm.

It’s over 35 years ago now, and since that wonderful season which ended with the Wembley shoot out defeat it had all gone horribly wrong until the current owners took over. I’m not sure how far we’ll go either, but League One is the minimum target I’d say.

I look at teams like Bournemouth, Burton, Fleetwood, Accrington, Forest Green, and they are all punching successfully above their weight, so maybe we can achieve the same.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:56 pm**

Esteban wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:52 pm Who knows what the future holds?

I’m fairly confident that the worst is now behind us. I honestly can’t see us in the conference ever again (unless something catastrophic happens).

I’d settle for a decade of L2/L1 football. A promotion to league 1 thrown in there. Establishing ourselves as a top half L1 club by 2029 would be a success in my eyes, with a push for championship status in the decade which follows.

Personally, I’d prefer a much slower, stable progression up the pyramid rather than yo-yoing up and down the lower leagues.

I suspect this is the long term, providing that this can be achieved without the owners having to stump up megabucks every year to keep us going because frankly I don’t see that happening. Would be nice to hit the Championship but we just ain’t got the set up to sustain it.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:01 pm**

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:56 pm
Esteban wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:52 pm Who knows what the future holds?

I’m fairly confident that the worst is now behind us. I honestly can’t see us in the conference ever again (unless something catastrophic happens).

I’d settle for a decade of L2/L1 football. A promotion to league 1 thrown in there. Establishing ourselves as a top half L1 club by 2029 would be a success in my eyes, with a push for championship status in the decade which follows.

Personally, I’d prefer a much slower, stable progression up the pyramid rather than yo-yoing up and down the lower leagues.
I suspect this is the long term, providing that this can be achieved without the owners having to stump up megabucks every year to keep us going because frankly I don’t see that happening. Would be nice to hit the Championship but we just ain’t got the set up to sustain it.

The club has a lot of promise. Look at the size of crowds we managed to get last year.

Leyton is a changing area (whether the gentrification is a good or bad thing is another argument) and there is plenty of chance to build on the existing support base. Lots of young families moving to the area who may take their kids to Orient.

There’s still a strong contingent of old fans who no longer live in the are who still commute in (many living in Essex, for example).

Orient has a very promising future. Especially as people continue to turn their backs on the greed and exploitation of Premier League football.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:24 pm**

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:43 pm Im from a generation where Championship/prem equivalent football was the norm. Always hoped for a return to those days. Recent times with the Little Leyton Orient label and two years in the NL I’ve started to modify my aspirations. Realistically we are a L1 club at best. Maybe the odd flirtation with the Championship but L1 is our level at best. Can’t believe how excited I am with League 2 (division 4) football

Despite the best efforts of Teague and Travis, which are fantastic, I cannot see us as anything more that a decent L1 side. Whilst we may develop the playing side our ground is L1 and will always be the limiting factor

What era was this? Orient only had one season in top flight football.

Think you are looking back with rose tinted specs

I do agree that best Orient can realistically hope for is L1 club , with occasional flirting 2ith promotion and the odd good cup run.

IE where club were under Hearn/ Slade

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:24 pm**

With the way even L1 football has hyped up money-wise now (reading yesterday about a player moving from that level for £7.5 million is just crazy) I think that's about our limit without another Beelzebub-esque owner gamble.

Even if we could attract 10k+ crowds we can't ever take advantage of that without huge investment and a move elsewhere thanks to Hearn's land grab. Sets the glass ceiling quite low as there's no way to increase revenue past where we're at now with sell-out crowds of 7-8k max.

Given the awful standard we've had to endure for the past two seasons a decade of L2 / L1 football with a cup run or play-off saga would be fine by me. Would take a miracle season to get to Championship level but can't see how we could ever compete financially there.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:26 pm**

Esteban wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:52 pm Who knows what the future holds?

I’m fairly confident that the worst is now behind us. I honestly can’t see us in the conference ever again (unless something catastrophic happens).

I’d settle for a decade of L2/L1 football. A promotion to league 1 thrown in there. Establishing ourselves as a top half L1 club by 2029 would be a success in my eyes, with a push for championship status in the decade which follows.

Personally, I’d prefer a much slower, stable progression up the pyramid rather than yo-yoing up and down the lower leagues.

Yes, that would do for me as well. I just don't want us to ever go back down to the National League again.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:27 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:24 pm With the way even L1 football has hyped up money-wise now (reading yesterday about a player moving from that level for £7.5 million is just crazy) I think that's about our limit without another Beelzebub-esque owner gamble.

....

Who is going for that sum in L1?

Some club will be rich

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:29 pm**

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:24 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:43 pm Im from a generation where Championship/prem equivalent football was the norm. Always hoped for a return to those days. Recent times with the Little Leyton Orient label and two years in the NL I’ve started to modify my aspirations. Realistically we are a L1 club at best. Maybe the odd flirtation with the Championship but L1 is our level at best. Can’t believe how excited I am with League 2 (division 4) football

Despite the best efforts of Teague and Travis, which are fantastic, I cannot see us as anything more that a decent L1 side. Whilst we may develop the playing side our ground is L1 and will always be the limiting factor
What era was this? Orient only had one season in top flight football.

Think you are looking back with rose tinted specs

I do agree that best Orient can realistically hope for is L1 club , with occasional flirting 2ith promotion and the odd good cup run.

IE where club were under Hearn/ Slade

Not rose tinted specs. Go look at the record books. We were a bigger team than many now way above us. 12 consecutive years in the Championship is a fact, not myth.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:30 pm**

Championship with the current board. Then it depends on ambition.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:31 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:24 pm With the way even L1 football has hyped up money-wise now (reading yesterday about a player moving from that level for £7.5 million is just crazy) I think that's about our limit without another Beelzebub-esque owner gamble.

Even if we could attract 10k+ crowds we can't ever take advantage of that without huge investment and a move elsewhere thanks to Hearn's land grab. Sets the glass ceiling quite low as there's no way to increase revenue past where we're at now with sell-out crowds of 7-8k max.

Given the awful standard we've had to endure for the past two seasons a decade of L2 / L1 football with a cup run or play-off saga would be fine by me. Would take a miracle season to get to Championship level but can't see how we could ever compete financially there.

As we found out under Beelzebub, it's not having the money so much but how you spend it . If we can spend what we've got wisely than I see no reason why we can't at least get back to League One . With any luck we might even get to taste Championship football one day, who knows.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:34 pm**

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:30 pm Championship with the current board. Then it depends on ambition.

Even with our extremely good board, Championship football is a big ask but you never know.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:49 pm**

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:29 pm
spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:24 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:43 pm Im from a generation where Championship/prem equivalent football was the norm. Always hoped for a return to those days. Recent times with the Little Leyton Orient label and two years in the NL I’ve started to modify my aspirations. Realistically we are a L1 club at best. Maybe the odd flirtation with the Championship but L1 is our level at best. Can’t believe how excited I am with League 2 (division 4) football

Despite the best efforts of Teague and Travis, which are fantastic, I cannot see us as anything more that a decent L1 side. Whilst we may develop the playing side our ground is L1 and will always be the limiting factor
What era was this? Orient only had one season in top flight football.

Think you are looking back with rose tinted specs

I do agree that best Orient can realistically hope for is L1 club , with occasional flirting 2ith promotion and the odd good cup run.

IE where club were under Hearn/ Slade
Not rose tinted specs. Go look at the record books. We were a bigger team than many now way above us. 12 consecutive years in the Championship is a fact, not myth.

Your fantasy about being brought up on Premiership level football is the issue.

Championship is not top flight football

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:55 pm**

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:49 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:29 pm
spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:24 pm

What era was this? Orient only had one season in top flight football.

Think you are looking back with rose tinted specs

I do agree that best Orient can realistically hope for is L1 club , with occasional flirting 2ith promotion and the odd good cup run.

IE where club were under Hearn/ Slade
Not rose tinted specs. Go look at the record books. We were a bigger team than many now way above us. 12 consecutive years in the Championship is a fact, not myth.

Your fantasy about being brought up on Premiership level football is the issue.

Championship is not top flight football

Never said that. Clean your glasses.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:04 pm**

It wasn't really the norm though, just what we experienced over a relatively short period of our history. The norm is around League 1. The years you mention were our halcyon days.

Still, no reason why we can't get back to them with the right people in charge. The Club would just have to look quite a bit different to what it does today and that will likely upset people.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:08 pm**

Real Al wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:04 pm It wasn't really the norm though, just what we experienced over a relatively short period of our history. The norm is around League 1. The years you mention were our halcyon days.

Still, no reason why we can't get back to them with the right people in charge. The Club would just have to look quite a bit different to what it does today and that will likely upset people.

In what way look different and why would that upset people ?

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:36 pm**

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:55 pm
spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:49 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:29 pm

Not rose tinted specs. Go look at the record books. We were a bigger team than many now way above us. 12 consecutive years in the Championship is a fact, not myth.

Your fantasy about being brought up on Premiership level football is the issue.

Championship is not top flight football
Never said that. Clean your glasses.

So your opening sentence is fake news?

Now tell me about when Premiership ( or top flight football was the norm?

I asked you in my first post what era it was and still you won't answer. Given the record books show only one season in the top flight, please enlighten me when Premiership football was the norm?

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:37 pm**

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:55 pm
spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:49 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:29 pm

Not rose tinted specs. Go look at the record books. We were a bigger team than many now way above us. 12 consecutive years in the Championship is a fact, not myth.

Your fantasy about being brought up on Premiership level football is the issue.

Championship is not top flight football
Never said that. Clean your glasses.

Spen doesn't handles facts well I'm afraid.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:48 pm**

Reckon we should concentrate on avoiding relegation next year before worrying about the Championship and beyond.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:02 pm**

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:55 pm
spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:49 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:29 pm

Not rose tinted specs. Go look at the record books. We were a bigger team than many now way above us. 12 consecutive years in the Championship is a fact, not myth.

Your fantasy about being brought up on Premiership level football is the issue.

Championship is not top flight football
Never said that. Clean your glasses.

Spen has a point. One season in the entire history of the club in the top flight hardly counts for it being “the norm”.

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:55 pm**

Esteban wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:02 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:55 pm
spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:49 pm

Your fantasy about being brought up on Premiership level football is the issue.

Championship is not top flight football
Never said that. Clean your glasses.
Spen has a point. One season in the entire history of the club in the top flight hardly counts for it being “the norm”.

Barring our one year in the top flight,Championship football was the norm for me prior to and after our one year in the top flight.
No reason we cannot get back into the Championship

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:04 pm**

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:55 pm
Esteban wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:02 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:55 pm

Never said that. Clean your glasses.
Spen has a point. One season in the entire history of the club in the top flight hardly counts for it being “the norm”.
Barring our one year in the top flight,Championship football was the norm for me prior to and after our one year in the top flight.
No reason we cannot get back into the Championship

Prior to 1930, Orient were constantly in division 2. Decline started when they left Clapton (much like me) ;-0

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:09 pm**

Prior to 1983, Orient has spent significantly more seasons at tier 2 than any other level. It’s the last 35 years that have been the bad times.

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