Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:58 am
Not allowed back to the Uk to fight her appeal
http://news.sky.com/story/shamima-begum ... s-12229270
http://news.sky.com/story/shamima-begum ... s-12229270
Independent Leyton Orient Forum
The Unofficial and Independent Leyton Orient Message Board
https://lofcforum.com/forum1/phpBB3/
Shamima Begum
Page 1 of 13
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:08 am
Awful to see a young girl - one of our own from Bethnal Green, to boot - being treated like this.
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:18 am
A correct judgement IMO.
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:20 am
7 pages of balanced reasoned debate
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:22 am
Hmmm. Putting aside everyone's wide ranging views on Ms Begum's alleged crimes, I'm not comfortable with this country stripping citizenship as a way of wiping it's hands of a problem.
Shamima Begum was born in Britain - as far as I'm aware, it's a common misconception that she holds Bangladeshi citizenship. She may or may not be entitled to it, but Bangladesh will not allow her entry and has therefore been made stateless. She's a British problem and should be allowed to return and face charges for the crimes she's allegedly committed.
Shamima Begum was born in Britain - as far as I'm aware, it's a common misconception that she holds Bangladeshi citizenship. She may or may not be entitled to it, but Bangladesh will not allow her entry and has therefore been made stateless. She's a British problem and should be allowed to return and face charges for the crimes she's allegedly committed.
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:38 am
Should she not be charged in the country she committed the crimes though?
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:54 am
Forgive my ignorance, but has she committed any crimes in Syria? I was thinking more about terrorism offences (if any) committed here.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:38 am Should she not be charged in the country she committed the crimes though?
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:59 am
No idea. They dont seem to be interested in her. Is being in ISIS or whatever not a crime in Syria?
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:09 am
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:15 am
I too am uncomfortable with this verdict. As has been said, shes British, and is therefore our problem, and should be tried here for any alleged offences
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:16 am
So she's broken UK law. Why shouldn't she face justice here then?
Don't get me wrong, I understand the emotions behind your view, but what harm do you think she'd be able to do if she returned?
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:26 am
The harm is symbolic.
It may serve to radicalise certain elements of the far right wing and cause tensions in the moderate muslim community that do not want her either.
Our legal system is not set up for this modern problem. There should be an offense in statute that sees people who go off and follow radical fundamentalist ideals immediately incarcerated upon their return. Allow her back in and the people supporting her claims in the UK will want her out on bail.
A serious question. What is the status of her children? She left as single and I'm guessing she wants to bring a family unit back??
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:29 am
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:08 am Awful to see a young girl - one of our own from Bethnal Green, to boot - being treated like this.
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:30 am
Difficult to have any sympathy for her, and I’ve long been of the opinion that the legal system too often seems to lean over backwards to try to protect the rights of the Guilty at the expense – both at physical risk and at cost – to the vast majority of law-abiding citizens.
But I get what people are saying, and it has to be a fair system.
But I get what people are saying, and it has to be a fair system.
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:35 am
So if a British person commits a crime abroad, they should be tried here? Why?ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:15 am I too am uncomfortable with this verdict. As has been said, shes British, and is therefore our problem, and should be tried here for any alleged offences
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:36 am
All of her children are dead.LittleMate wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:26 amThe harm is symbolic.
It may serve to radicalise certain elements of the far right wing and cause tensions in the moderate muslim community that do not want her either.
Our legal system is not set up for this modern problem. There should be an offense in statute that sees people who go off and follow radical fundamentalist ideals immediately incarcerated upon their return. Allow her back in and the people supporting her claims in the UK will want her out on bail.
A serious question. What is the status of her children? She left as single and I'm guessing she wants to bring a family unit back??
Hypothetically, if she returned, what do you think the UK Government would do with her?
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:39 am
What does the first paragraph mean in this context? In her case, she's not been found guilty of anything because she's not been allowed a fair trial yet.EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:30 am Difficult to have any sympathy for her, and I’ve long been of the opinion that the legal system too often seems to lean over backwards to try to protect the rights of the Guilty at the expense – both at physical risk and at cost – to the vast majority of law-abiding citizens.
But I get what people are saying, and it has to be a fair system.
Don't have a jot of sympathy with her, but she has rights as a citizen of this country as anyone else does. And it is against international law to leave people stateless, which she would be if we go ahead with this decision.
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:40 am
I think people in this country have had quite enough of following international law.
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:40 am
She has not got any children. She gave birth to 3 children but they all died.LittleMate wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:26 amThe harm is symbolic.
It may serve to radicalise certain elements of the far right wing and cause tensions in the moderate muslim community that do not want her either.
Our legal system is not set up for this modern problem. There should be an offense in statute that sees people who go off and follow radical fundamentalist ideals immediately incarcerated upon their return. Allow her back in and the people supporting her claims in the UK will want her out on bail.
A serious question. What is the status of her children? She left as single and I'm guessing she wants to bring a family unit back??
Re: Shamima Begu
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:41 am
Can she not be charged with treason which is a current offence? Mind you with a sentence of up to life it wouldn’t be cheap to bring her home.LittleMate wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:26 am
The harm is symbolic.
It may serve to radicalise certain elements of the far right wing and cause tensions in the moderate muslim community that do not want her either.
Our legal system is not set up for this modern problem. There should be an offense in statute that sees people who go off and follow radical fundamentalist ideals immediately incarcerated upon their return. Allow her back in and the people supporting her claims in the UK will want her out on bail.
A serious question. What is the status of her children? She left as single and I'm guessing she wants to bring a family unit back??
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:41 am
Of course they should be tried in that country. However, as far as we're aware, there's no evidence that she has committed any crimes in Syria - she's at present living in a refugee camp.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:35 amSo if a British person commits a crime abroad, they should be tried here? Why?ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:15 am I too am uncomfortable with this verdict. As has been said, shes British, and is therefore our problem, and should be tried here for any alleged offences
We imprison foreign nationals here in the UK for crimes committed in the UK. And then in many cases we deport those foreign nationals back to their country of origin.
So hypothetically, if SB is tried and convicted in Syria, serves her sentence, where should Syria deport her to?
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:42 am
^ This.Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:39 amWhat does the first paragraph mean in this context? In her case, she's not been found guilty of anything because she's not been allowed a fair trial yet.EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:30 am Difficult to have any sympathy for her, and I’ve long been of the opinion that the legal system too often seems to lean over backwards to try to protect the rights of the Guilty at the expense – both at physical risk and at cost – to the vast majority of law-abiding citizens.
But I get what people are saying, and it has to be a fair system.
Don't have a jot of sympathy with her, but she has rights as a citizen of this country as anyone else does. And it is against international law to leave people stateless, which she would be if we go ahead with this decision.
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:46 am
Why do we keep talking about financial costs? You're into failed state territory once you start starting saying that following due process is too expensive to be worth doing. Having a legal system with integrity and independence is a major economic plus point for this country.
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:48 am
Here, once her sentence finishes.Admin wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:41 amOf course they should be tried in that country. However, as far as we're aware, there's no evidence that she has committed any crimes in Syria - she's at present living in a refugee camp.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:35 amSo if a British person commits a crime abroad, they should be tried here? Why?ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:15 am I too am uncomfortable with this verdict. As has been said, shes British, and is therefore our problem, and should be tried here for any alleged offences
We imprison foreign nationals here in the UK for crimes committed in the UK. And then in many cases we deport those foreign nationals back to their country of origin.
So hypothetically, if SB is tried and convicted in Syria, serves her sentence, where should Syria deport her to?
Or Bangladesh. Whats the reason she doesnt have citizenship there again? Because they dont want anything to do with her either.
Re: Shamima Begum
Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:51 am
This. I’ve just been reading that she has/had dual citizenship with Bangladesh so the UK revoking her citizenship has not made her stateless.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:48 amHere, once her sentence finishes.Admin wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:41 amOf course they should be tried in that country. However, as far as we're aware, there's no evidence that she has committed any crimes in Syria - she's at present living in a refugee camp.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:35 am
So if a British person commits a crime abroad, they should be tried here? Why?
We imprison foreign nationals here in the UK for crimes committed in the UK. And then in many cases we deport those foreign nationals back to their country of origin.
So hypothetically, if SB is tried and convicted in Syria, serves her sentence, where should Syria deport her to?
Or Bangladesh. Whats the reason she doesnt have citizenship there again? Because they dont want anything to do with her either.