Independent Leyton Orient Forum

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/56061842


It seems like he is moaning away to cover his & his teams bad play

He' right, It's not a good pitch. The pitch prepared for the first test was a bit better but not by much.that one started to wear on day two this one was crumbling and the top surface going on the first morning. credit to India who batted well on it.

This was a must win test for India and they have prepared a surface that helps their bowlers nothing wrong with that up to a point but the first two test matches have basically just been win the toss win the match type surfaces, it's not a case of who wins or loses it justs bad for the game.

Every country goes for wickets that suit their team, all you have to do is look at the home v away international records. Having said that, It's not a great pitch, but the english wickets were mostly bad shots

I always thought India being an extremely hot country a crumbly pitch would be normal
What is he expectijg them to do ? Water it or something ?

Didnt watch it but saw the ealry score on the news .

How can it be a terrible pitch if India scored so many runs on it ?

Cheers for the answers chaps

Wickets will 99% of the time get worse with wear and hot weather it's expected specially in the sub continent, Usually though even in asia on the first day or two they have some moisture in them which holds the surface together. Pitches are normally watered in the days before a game to provide that moisture but if you skip that or stop watering early they start dry and just get dryer it distorts the balance between bat and ball and good spinners (which India have in abandance) benefit the most because a dry pitch means the ball will grip and bounce which on a decent pitch will happen maybe day three, four of five, day one,two and three are normally decent for batting.

I credit India scoring 329 they got that many because England bowled pretty poorly on the day and didn't make the most of the conditions, India also clearly had a policy to attack the bowling as they really need to win this game. Adz is right in saying all home teams prepare pitches to best suit their team but I think this pitch in particular is a step too far.

In the County championship two years ago Somerset had to beat Essex in the final game to win the title and produced a very similar pitch to this one that spun on day one and would never last the four days of scheduled cricket, as it transpired rain reduced the game to a day and a half which scuppered their plan but they were fined and given a points deduction for producing a poor pitch.

Agnew has long since lost it completely - seems like the lack of Boycott has forced him into becoming the moaner-in-chief. Yes, it started turning from day one, but India have scored 329 and 286 on it.

The idea that Tests need to last five days is a load of rubbish too, I'd rather this pitch than Nagpur 2012 or Melbourne in the last Ashes. Both went five days, and both were tedious draws.

You never hear anything like this from him or most of the English media when teams have been bowled out in England cheaply, it's all "poor techniques" and "good bowling." India have better spinners than England and bat better in the conditions, it's a tough pitch, but not unplayable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/45142732

The easiest way round this pitch doctoring debate would be ( as has been suggested many times before ) to always offer the away team the option as to if they wanted to bat or bowl first !

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:55 pm The easiest way round this pitch doctoring debate would be ( as has been suggested many times before ) to always offer the away team the option as to if they wanted to bat or bowl first !

They did that in the county championship and have since done away with it.

Whilst the pitch has been produced for the benefit on India's spinners the main reason that they have bowled and batted better than us is that we have changed our cricket calendar so much in this country that we do not produce quality spinners and our batsmen do not develop techniques good enough to play it.

Too big a % of our 4 day games are played in April and May on green seamers where a bowler just has to keep putting it in the right place and let the pitch do the rest. That is why bowlers like Darren Stevens at Kent can keep trundling away at 42.

It also shows when Simon Harmer gets as many wickets as he does for Essex that our batsmen struggle against a quality spin bowler. No English spinner gets as many wickets but how successful would Harmer be at Test level?

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:01 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:55 pm The easiest way round this pitch doctoring debate would be ( as has been suggested many times before ) to always offer the away team the option as to if they wanted to bat or bowl first !

They did that in the county championship and have since done away with it.

Whilst the pitch has been produced for the benefit on India's spinners the main reason that they have bowled and batted better than us is that we have changed our cricket calendar so much in this country that we do not produce quality spinners and our batsmen do not develop techniques good enough to play it.

Too big a % of our 4 day games are played in April and May on green seamers where a bowler just has to keep putting it in the right place and let the pitch do the rest. That is why bowlers like Darren Stevens at Kent can keep trundling away at 42.

It also shows when Simon Harmer gets as many wickets as he does for Essex that our batsmen struggle against a quality spin bowler. No English spinner gets as many wickets but how successful would Harmer be at Test level?

Not quite correct, e.g ''In domestic four-day matches, the visiting captain was given the option of bowling first or having the toss as normal to decide which side bats first.''
My suggestion is more on the lines of this BBC news report from 2018 ''ECB supports ICC's proposal to scrap toss in Test cricket''

See part which says as follows ''other option being to give the visiting captain the outright choice of batting or bowling first.''
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/44176355

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:11 am I always thought India being an extremely hot country a crumbly pitch would be normal
What is he expectijg them to do ? Water it or something ?

Didnt watch it but saw the ealry score on the news .

How can it be a terrible pitch if India scored so many runs on it ?

Cheers for the answers chaps

I guess they just have more experience playing on pitches like that. Have first go helped. Win the toss, win the game. Is that what the article is saying?

The pitch was breaking up on day one due to the lack of moisture in the pitch, a test pitch should not break up like that, that early. In the continent they are in the pitches are harder and break easier however, if the thing was watered then moisture would hold the pitch together for longer. It should not be possible for it to spin like that on day 1.

Dohnut (ALM) wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:01 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:11 am I always thought India being an extremely hot country a crumbly pitch would be normal
What is he expectijg them to do ? Water it or something ?

Didnt watch it but saw the ealry score on the news .

How can it be a terrible pitch if India scored so many runs on it ?

Cheers for the answers chaps

I guess they just have more experience playing on pitches like that. Have first go helped. Win the toss, win the game. Is that what the article is saying?

As I have suggested above and repeat here, far fairer in test cricket would be..........
''The easiest way round this pitch doctoring debate would be ( as has been suggested many times before ) to always offer the away team the option as to if they wanted to bat or bowl first''
By doing that, it might help to cut down the chances of pitches being prepared ( as they are now ) which so much suit the strengths of the home teams own bowling attack. Crazy that international cricket match results should be influenced so much by a mere toss of a coin.

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:08 pm The pitch was breaking up on day one due to the lack of moisture in the pitch, a test pitch should not break up like that, that early. In the continent they are in the pitches are harder and break easier however, if the thing was watered then moisture would hold the pitch together for longer. It should not be possible for it to spin like that on day 1.

Agree. Even the likes of Bradman would have struggled against Ashwin today.

Ashwin scored a hundred plus runs today , on a 3 day old pitch .
Does that mean the pitch got better ?

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:49 pm Ashwin scored a hundred plus runs today , on a 3 day old pitch .
Does that mean the pitch got better ?

No, it means he was able to take chances, go for his shots as there was no pressure on him. It worked.

Dohnut (ALM) wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:03 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:49 pm Ashwin scored a hundred plus runs today , on a 3 day old pitch .
Does that mean the pitch got better ?

No, it means he was able to take chances, go for his shots as there was no pressure on him. It worked.

So why were Englands players not able to
Take chances & go for there shots ?
Were they under pressure ?

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:49 pm Ashwin scored a hundred plus runs today , on a 3 day old pitch .
Does that mean the pitch got better ?

We’ve not bowled that well either.

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:28 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:49 pm Ashwin scored a hundred plus runs today , on a 3 day old pitch .
Does that mean the pitch got better ?

We’ve not bowled that well either.

I didnt realise you were playing Thorbyn
Are you modeen or leech ?

The we’ve means my country, still as you don’t understand sport or grammar I’ll leave it there.

I understand sport & grammmmmar
I just dont particualrly fixate over its
importance on Sosh Medya .


Anyway back to Cricket .

Why werr England good in test 1
But Bad in test 2 ?

India were bad in test 1 but good in test 2 years.

It cant be just down to the pitch surely

Goes beyond a dodgy pitch.

Englands batting is woefully inexperienced in these conditions, Sibley, Burns, Lawrence and Pope four of our top six haven't played test cricket in India before,Root carried us through the first test with his double century and the pressure was largely off the batting for most of the game. Put under scoreboard pressure in this game they have crumbled pitifully. Bairstow will be back next test and should play along with Crawley if fit. Replacing Bess with Ali was a strange selection given Ali has had no cricket in months if they brought in Moen to get some control it's backfired badly.

India's spinners have bowled well and created pressure and while Englands spinners have bowled some good wicket taking deliveries they have not really been able to slow the scoring rate.

We will lose tomorrow but there have been plusses Ollie Stone has bowled well and Ben Foakes has been excellent behind the stumps and showed guts with the bat in the first innings and should be Englands teat match keeper for years to come.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:52 pm Goes beyond a dodgy pitch.

Englands batting is woefully inexperienced in these conditions, Sibley, Burns, Lawrence and Pope four of our top six haven't played test cricket in India before,Root carried us through the first test with his double century and the pressure was largely off the batting for most of the game. Put under scoreboard pressure in this game they have crumbled pitifully. Bairstow will be back next test and should play along with Crawley if fit. Replacing Bess with Ali was a strange selection given Ali has had no cricket in months if they brought in Moen to get some control it's backfired badly.

India's spinners have bowled well and created pressure and while Englands spinners have bowled some good wicket taking deliveries they have not really been able to slow the scoring rate.

We will lose tomorrow but there have been plusses Ollie Stone has bowled well and Ben Foakes has been excellent behind the stumps and showed guts with the bat in the first innings and should be Englands teat match keeper for years to come.

I like your answers Jes

It sounds like you understand the game so much more
Than the likes of Thor.

I appreciate your explanations , they make sense & give a little more understanding to someone who doesnt follow the game much .

Been watching live

The best thing is the commentators
All very funny

Next Test match starts on Wednesday 24th.

Will be interesting as it's a day/night game and being played in Ahmebads new stadium which is the biggest purpose built cricket ground in the world. Pink ball used in day/nighters usually does a bit under lights outside of the sub continent and nobody knows how the pitch will play or be prepared but I think we can assume it will be spinner friendly but may help the quicker bowlers in the sessions under lights.

On paper this was Englands best chance of winning a test on this tour and they surprised everyone by winning the opening game quite comfortably.

The game starts at more palletable 8 am UK time.

Just seen the pitch it’s very green, hopefully that’s a good sign for our seemers.