Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Looks like this is not going to end for the club. It’s being reported in breaking news we may be fined for breaching covid rules and probably hit with a misconduct charge.

Why don’t they just keep on kicking us whilst we are down?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ocols.html

What rule did we break?

Spenny will know!

Personally, I’m not surprised. Os supporters will grumble about the EFL here, but it seems we’ve been a bit shoddy & careless on this covid issue.

I am really baffled by the fact that they were aware that several players were under the weather with 'bug' like symptoms and didn't think to investigate further. We massively dropped the ball on this one and deserve a punishment imo, we put Mansfield and our own squad at risk.

Colour me unsurprised.

I’m all for “rallying round” and “unity” but people need to recognise that we’ve been pretty dopey in handling this, and have brought it on ourselves. And there are perfectly legitimate questions to be asked about it.

...

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:04 am Looks like this is not going to end for the club. It’s being reported in breaking news we may be fined for breaching covid rules and probably hit with a misconduct charge.

Why don’t they just keep on kicking us whilst we are down?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ocols.html

If this is true. Orient are authors of their own misfortune by breaking the rules.

If people want to avoid punishments then don't break the rules.

The blame attaches to whoever if anyone is responsible for breaking the rules.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:35 am I am really baffled by the fact that they were aware that several players were under the weather with 'bug' like symptoms and didn't think to investigate further. We massively dropped the ball on this one and deserve a punishment imo, we put Mansfield and our own squad at risk.

Not just that, the fact Embleton was so blasé about it in that interview goes to show just how naive and careless we were to the risks during a serious global pandemic.

To be fair to him, at the time it didn't occur to me that it could be covid.

Might give us a kick up the arse to be on top of the safety of our players and other teams players

They can get to f***.

What protocols did the club break?

Its always easier to kick a man when he is down and this situation is easy for EFL to show they are tough.

Not just that - they need to go on the offensive and justify kicking us out of the competition when we were able to play.

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:58 am Not just that - they need to go on the offensive and justify kicking us out of the competition when we were able to play.

And yet, beyond soft signalling “injustice” to the fans, you won’t see the Club actually contest any of this. Because they know they’re bang to rights and don’t want to waste any more money.

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:56 am They can get to f***.

What protocols did the club break?

Imagine it's along the same lines as the rest of the population if you're demonstrating symptoms - isolate and get tested - but with some kind of teeth so that clubs don't do what we've done and press ahead anyway.

There is a perverse advantage to the bulk of our squad getting it in one hit early in the season, assuming that they all recover ok. Reduces the likelihood of this happening over and over again so we avoid fixture congestion later in the season. Really though, this incident is just underlining how impossible this season will be to complete. It's basically a write off and I'd take survival, both as a league team and a functioning club, in a heartbeat.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:15 am

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:35 am I am really baffled by the fact that they were aware that several players were under the weather with 'bug' like symptoms and didn't think to investigate further. We massively dropped the ball on this one and deserve a punishment imo, we put Mansfield and our own squad at risk.

Not just that, the fact Embleton was so blasé about it in that interview goes to show just how naive and careless we were to the risks during a serious global pandemic.

That’s one of the most damning things of all for me: he acknowledged the possibility it could have been COVID and then dismissed it. But they hadn’t done any tests.

So, they were aware of the risk, and recklessly ignored it. We haven’t got a leg to stand on.

"Oh let's all play by the rules while everyone else say's bollocks to the rules"...some clubs have test's, some clubs have Premier league tests, some clubs have EFL tests and some clubs say "No thanks mate, were allright we are"
Then that fantastic governing body the EFL who dont actually have any tests in place fit for purpose think"Little old Leyton Orient silly bastards caught with thier pants down we'll show em a bit of muscle firstly kick em out, what next? i know lets give em a fine and for the hat-trick a nice little points reduction to help em get over the covid.

Going by the reports we will definetly be found guilty at any inquiry.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:07 am

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:56 am They can get to f***.

What protocols did the club break?

Imagine it's along the same lines as the rest of the population if you're demonstrating symptoms - isolate and get tested - but with some kind of teeth so that clubs don't do what we've done and press ahead anyway.

There is a perverse advantage to the bulk of our squad getting it in one hit early in the season, assuming that they all recover ok. Reduces the likelihood of this happening over and over again so we avoid fixture congestion later in the season. Really though, this incident is just underlining how impossible this season will be to complete. It's basically a write off and I'd take survival, both as a league team and a functioning club, in a heartbeat.

I wasn’t aware that the players were showing Covid symptoms, I thought they’d said it was just a bug ( I haven’t listened to the interviews or Q and A stuff).

If we had a squad of players with the sweats, consistently coughing and unable to smell or taste and we ignored that, then fair enough.

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:30 am

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:07 am

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:56 am They can get to f***.

What protocols did the club break?

Imagine it's along the same lines as the rest of the population if you're demonstrating symptoms - isolate and get tested - but with some kind of teeth so that clubs don't do what we've done and press ahead anyway.

There is a perverse advantage to the bulk of our squad getting it in one hit early in the season, assuming that they all recover ok. Reduces the likelihood of this happening over and over again so we avoid fixture congestion later in the season. Really though, this incident is just underlining how impossible this season will be to complete. It's basically a write off and I'd take survival, both as a league team and a functioning club, in a heartbeat.

I wasn’t aware that the players were showing Covid symptoms, I thought they’d said it was just a bug ( I haven’t listened to the interviews or Q and A stuff).

If we had a squad of players with the sweats, consistently coughing and unable to smell or taste and we ignored that, then fair enough.

By the sounds of it, we had a bug and also had Covid.

Wilkinson came off at Oldham and was puking at the side of the pitch.

UpminsterO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:35 am

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:30 am

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:07 am

Imagine it's along the same lines as the rest of the population if you're demonstrating symptoms - isolate and get tested - but with some kind of teeth so that clubs don't do what we've done and press ahead anyway.

There is a perverse advantage to the bulk of our squad getting it in one hit early in the season, assuming that they all recover ok. Reduces the likelihood of this happening over and over again so we avoid fixture congestion later in the season. Really though, this incident is just underlining how impossible this season will be to complete. It's basically a write off and I'd take survival, both as a league team and a functioning club, in a heartbeat.

I wasn’t aware that the players were showing Covid symptoms, I thought they’d said it was just a bug ( I haven’t listened to the interviews or Q and A stuff).

If we had a squad of players with the sweats, consistently coughing and unable to smell or taste and we ignored that, then fair enough.

But one can have no symptoms but still have the virus and contaminate others

Yes, of course.

But how can you be at fault if that’s the case? You can’t.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:35 am

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:30 am

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:07 am

Imagine it's along the same lines as the rest of the population if you're demonstrating symptoms - isolate and get tested - but with some kind of teeth so that clubs don't do what we've done and press ahead anyway.

There is a perverse advantage to the bulk of our squad getting it in one hit early in the season, assuming that they all recover ok. Reduces the likelihood of this happening over and over again so we avoid fixture congestion later in the season. Really though, this incident is just underlining how impossible this season will be to complete. It's basically a write off and I'd take survival, both as a league team and a functioning club, in a heartbeat.

I wasn’t aware that the players were showing Covid symptoms, I thought they’d said it was just a bug ( I haven’t listened to the interviews or Q and A stuff).

If we had a squad of players with the sweats, consistently coughing and unable to smell or taste and we ignored that, then fair enough.

By the sounds of it, we had a bug and also had Covid.

Wilkinson came off at Oldham and was puking at the side of the pitch.

So if players were throwing up and it seemed a sickness bug was doing the rounds, with no one presenting Covid can kind of understand why medics thought it was a sickness bug.

UpminsterO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:39 am

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:35 am

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:30 am

I wasn’t aware that the players were showing Covid symptoms, I thought they’d said it was just a bug ( I haven’t listened to the interviews or Q and A stuff).

If we had a squad of players with the sweats, consistently coughing and unable to smell or taste and we ignored that, then fair enough.

By the sounds of it, we had a bug and also had Covid.

Wilkinson came off at Oldham and was puking at the side of the pitch.

Surely the medics would of insisted that he was tested immediately to establish if the poor guy had this virus that then would of dictated what to do as a club

Why?

UpminsterO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:42 am Why - bloody common sense

But throwing up isn’t a symptom.

It's not the EFL kicking Orient when they're down. It's the EFL doing their job and investigating whether a club didn't follow the guidelines properly. I hope they come back and say 'Orient did everything right, nothing to see here'.

Going by the below, I wonder what the bug was that didn't include ANY of the below symptoms.

As we know it, 9 players were off last week with a bug and 2 players on Friday had some of a new cough, fever, shortness of breath, loss of taste or smell. At no point was anyone tested and we still went ahead with the match against Mansfield.

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/6475a ... .05.20.pdf

Page 17:
COVID SYMPTOM EXAMPLE SCREENING QUESTIONNAIRE 2020

New Cough*
Fever/Temperature*
Unusually Short of Breath during exercise or at rest*
Loss of Smell*
Loss of Taste*
Red Eyes or Sticky Eyes
New Abdominal Pain or Diarrhoea
New Blocked/Runny Nose
New unusual fatigue with muscle and joint pains
Headache
Feeling generally unwell in any other way

If you have had any of these symptoms, please report it to your medical staff immediately BEFORE ATTENDING training
*Indicates most sensitive symptoms
Objective fever defined as 37.6oC
*Most individuals that are positive for COVID-19 do not appear to have fever

Page 18:
RECORD SHEET FOR POSSIBLE/CONFIRMED COVID-19 CASE

A) Consider the sensitivity of individual symptoms
 Fever/Shortness of Breath/Cough/Loss of Smell or Taste are more sensitive as
individual symptoms than those not italicised.
 Fatigue, skipped meals and joint/muscle pain are the most common symptoms for
those that test positive.

B) Please consider clusters of symptoms in suspecting COVID-19, rather than individual symptoms.
1. Muco-respiratory (Fever, cough, wheeze, sore throat, runny nose, conjunctivitis)
2. Enteric (Abdominal Pain, vomiting, Diarrhoea)
3. Constitutional (Malaise, Joint Pain, Myalgia)
4. Neurological (Loss of Smell, Loss of Taste, Headache)

Predisposing medical conditions (e.g. “Hayfever”) may complicate diagnosis. Use professional judgement

That’s a pretty comprehensive guide. They should have included hamstring tweaks to really cover their arses.