Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Is Ling the team manager? Does the DOF really pick the team, or at least have massive influence on who is picked.
Does Ling decide the formation, & tactics?
I think Ling has far greater shall we say influence, that IMO, he should as Director of Football.
I read/heard, he goes in the dressing room during and before games, and at half time, sometimes, which again IMO isnt correct.
Be interested in other peoples views on this

No idea.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:58 am Is Ling the team manager? Does the DOF really pick the team, or at least have massive influence on who is picked.
Does Ling decide the formation, & tactics?
I think Ling has far greater shall we say influence, that IMO, he should as Director of Football.
I read/heard, he goes in the dressing room during and before games, and at half time, sometimes, which again IMO isnt correct.
Be interested in other peoples views on this

We've debated this a million times on here. Who knows what happens.

Ultimately whatever happens Ross cannot win. If we do well, the consensus will be because Jobi and Senda is around. If we do badly it'll be on Ross.

The reason for this is the fault of the board for the horrendous decisions after Justin passed away in not getting a like for like replacement manager in. That would have sorted it right then and there.

But the whole indecisiveness, Ross coming in, going, Fletcher arriving, leaving, Ross stringing us along for months, then getting the job with a strange title, then getting the Head Coach role, then everyone from Ling Snr to Nigel telling us that Ross is the best thing ever has just created so much division and opportunity to criticise.

They should have wiped their mouth of it last Xmas when Ross was dilly-dallying, brought in a new MANAGER from outside, cut away the ties from the players to the management and started again.

In my eyes it is the ONLY mistake this board have made. Not particularly the appointment of Ross, but not getting in some steady hands after Justin passed.

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:16 am

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:58 am Is Ling the team manager? Does the DOF really pick the team, or at least have massive influence on who is picked.
Does Ling decide the formation, & tactics?
I think Ling has far greater shall we say influence, that IMO, he should as Director of Football.
I read/heard, he goes in the dressing room during and before games, and at half time, sometimes, which again IMO isnt correct.
Be interested in other peoples views on this

We've debated this a million times on here. Who knows what happens.

Ultimately whatever happens Boss cannot win. If we do well, the consensus will be because Jobi and Senda is around. If we do badly it'll be on Boss.

The reason for this is the fault of the board for the horrendous decisions after Justin passed away in not getting a like for like replacement manager in. That would have sorted it right then and there.

But the whole indecisiveness, Boss coming in, going, Fletcher arriving, leaving, Boss stringing us along for months, then getting the job with a strange title, then getting the Head Coach role, then everyone from Ling Snr to Nigel telling us that Boss is the best thing ever has just created so much division and opportunity to criticise.

They should have wiped their mouth of it last Xmas when Boss was dilly-dallying, brought in a new MANAGER from outside, cut away the ties from the players to the management and started again.

In my eyes it is the ONLY mistake this board have made. Not particularly the appointment of Boss, but not getting in some steady hands after Justin passed.

This pretty much sums up how I feel about things

Agree Tent.

The only thing i'd add is that they did 'break ties' and then ludicrously decided to back down from that almost instantly, backing the players over the new manager.

Look, what happened was awful and i cant blame anyone for making bad decisions in the cold light of what happened. There wasn't a 'good' option at that point. But agree with the point that when R oss was dilly-dallying and by his own account, Ling basically convinced him that he was the man to take it, we should have just got someone else in. It was money related/culpability related.

Whilst no one will ever know, I'm 100% convinced that Ling surrounds himself with inexperienced and ineffective people because with every one it's another layer removed from him being held accountable/getting the spanish archer (el bow). He displays all the classic signs of people i've worked with over the years who would much prefer to put people below them who talk a good game but aren't particularly capable so they dont get challenged or found out. There's a case to be made that Justin wasn't that, and I accept that, but I think thats the case now.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:06 am Agree Tent.

The only thing i'd add is that they did 'break ties' and then ludicrously decided to back down from that almost instantly, backing the players over the new manager.

Look, what happened was awful and i cant blame anyone for making bad decisions in the cold light of what happened. There wasn't a 'good' option at that point. But agree with the point that when R oss was dilly-dallying and by his own account, Ling basically convinced him that he was the man to take it, we should have just got someone else in. It was money related/culpability related.

Whilst no one will ever know, I'm 100% convinced that Ling surrounds himself with inexperienced and ineffective people because with every one it's another layer removed from him being held accountable/getting the spanish archer (el bow). He displays all the classic signs of people i've worked with over the years who would much prefer to put people below them who talk a good game but aren't particularly capable so they dont get challenged or found out. There's a case to be made that Justin wasn't that, and I accept that, but I think thats the case now.

But as you say, Justin totally disproves that theory. When an experienced man with a track record of success was available at the right price, Ling brought him in.

I would guess that the bringing in of inexperienced staff is a combination of many reasons - budget constraints, experienced people not wanting to come here in this unusual set up, and maybe to protect Ross in his position.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:06 am Agree Tent.

The only thing i'd add is that they did 'break ties' and then ludicrously decided to back down from that almost instantly, backing the players over the new manager.

Look, what happened was awful and i cant blame anyone for making bad decisions in the cold light of what happened. There wasn't a 'good' option at that point. But agree with the point that when R oss was dilly-dallying and by his own account, Ling basically convinced him that he was the man to take it, we should have just got someone else in. It was money related/culpability related.

Whilst no one will ever know, I'm 100% convinced that Ling surrounds himself with inexperienced and ineffective people because with every one it's another layer removed from him being held accountable/getting the spanish archer (el bow). He displays all the classic signs of people i've worked with over the years who would much prefer to put people below them who talk a good game but aren't particularly capable so they dont get challenged or found out. There's a case to be made that Justin wasn't that, and I accept that, but I think thats the case now.

el bow - good one

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:12 am

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:06 am Agree Tent.

The only thing i'd add is that they did 'break ties' and then ludicrously decided to back down from that almost instantly, backing the players over the new manager.

Look, what happened was awful and i cant blame anyone for making bad decisions in the cold light of what happened. There wasn't a 'good' option at that point. But agree with the point that when R oss was dilly-dallying and by his own account, Ling basically convinced him that he was the man to take it, we should have just got someone else in. It was money related/culpability related.

Whilst no one will ever know, I'm 100% convinced that Ling surrounds himself with inexperienced and ineffective people because with every one it's another layer removed from him being held accountable/getting the spanish archer (el bow). He displays all the classic signs of people i've worked with over the years who would much prefer to put people below them who talk a good game but aren't particularly capable so they dont get challenged or found out. There's a case to be made that Justin wasn't that, and I accept that, but I think thats the case now.

But as you say, Justin totally disproves that theory. When an experienced man with a track record of success was available at the right price, Ling brought him in.

I would guess that the bringing in of inexperienced staff is a combination of many reasons - budget constraints, experienced people not wanting to come here in this unusual set up, and maybe to protect Boss in his position.

But the circumstances are different now. When Justin came in we had a clear objective and were a big fish in a little pond. The budget was massive for that league and we had a very good chance of success. Being in the league is a different kettle of fish, and the pressure mounts on Ling every season we finish bottom half (which will be 2 years come May).

Agree though that budget probably had involvement. But also if Ling brought in another experienced manager that failed, and cost the owners money, i doubt he would have survived.

Whatever way you look at it I'm convinced that R oss is nothing but job security for Ling.

Sorry, it doesn’t make sense.

If ling wants to keep his job, he’s going to need to get us promoted, if not this season then next. The easiest way of achieving that is by bringing in a decent manager.

but that doesn't suit my agenda?

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:58 am Is Ling the team manager? Does the DOF really pick the team, or at least have massive influence on who is picked.
Does Ling decide the formation, & tactics?
I think Ling has far greater shall we say influence, that IMO, he should as Director of Football.
I read/heard, he goes in the dressing room during and before games, and at half time, sometimes, which again IMO isnt correct.
Be interested in other peoples views on this

Put it this way, if R oss does badly he’ll be sacked. The club has already said as much. As with other managers, R oss will either live or die by results because it’s a results based business

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:03 pm but that doesn't suit my agenda?

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:07 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:58 am Is Ling the team manager? Does the DOF really pick the team, or at least have massive influence on who is picked.
Does Ling decide the formation, & tactics?
I think Ling has far greater shall we say influence, that IMO, he should as Director of Football.
I read/heard, he goes in the dressing room during and before games, and at half time, sometimes, which again IMO isnt correct.
Be interested in other peoples views on this

Put it this way, if R oss does badly he’ll be sacked. The club has already said as much. As with other managers, R oss will either live or die by results because it’s a results based business

What counts as badly, that's the question.

Also dont believe for a second he'll be sacked. He'll 'decide' to take a step back to the coaching set up, cos we are a bit short there.

They've said there's no safety net for him now.

To carry on from my rant above..

It feels like the knives are already out (always have been) for Embleton.

My biggest massive huge concern is that our season could be put on a right dampener before it has effectively started. We all know about confidence in football blah blah.

We're off the back of two defeats, yes they're pre season friendlies but we'd rather have won them and not looked terrible in them wouldn't we?

If we don't show up for the Gillingham game with a decent performance on Saturday then we go into probably the hardest game we could've drawn in the Carabao Cup Vs Forest Green / Mark Cooper / Ebou Adams. Our set-up shows (and even Dulcet and Matt mentioned it) that we struggle and get bullied against physical teams and we get drawn into a place where we don't really wanna be going.

Then another Under-23 team in Brighton that I'm really hoping for a win for a bit of respite.

We move North to Covid Oldham for our first league away game, it's poxy to get to and will probably be freezing cold.

And then back at home for one of the league favourites and big spenders in Mansfield.

To me these games don't look easy and if we're without a win by this point everyone will be on massive downer.

Maybe I'm seeing the glass as half empty, but at this moment in time, a week away from the season opener I wouldn't be able to name three people on our team sheet (and only because one would be Ouss, and the other the keeper). We don't have a centre back pairing, midfield pairing, striker partnership, our full backs seem to now play all over the place so there's no combining down the wings, we've two wingers now primed to play in centre midfield and nobody can really put their finger on what formation we play.

And this is meant to be from a stable team that has had no additions to it and shouldn't need any time to gel.

It really doesn't need to be so complicated.

As I say maybe everyone else can see something that I can't but by the end of the Mansfield game I'm sure we'll have a better idea of where we'll end up.

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:21 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:07 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:58 am Is Ling the team manager? Does the DOF really pick the team, or at least have massive influence on who is picked.
Does Ling decide the formation, & tactics?
I think Ling has far greater shall we say influence, that IMO, he should as Director of Football.
I read/heard, he goes in the dressing room during and before games, and at half time, sometimes, which again IMO isnt correct.
Be interested in other peoples views on this

Put it this way, if R oss does badly he’ll be sacked. The club has already said as much. As with other managers, R oss will either live or die by results because it’s a results based business

What counts as badly, that's the question.

I would guess playing crap and struggling against relegation would do it

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:11 pm They've said there's no safety net for him now.

Pft.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:54 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:21 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:07 pm

Put it this way, if R oss does badly he’ll be sacked. The club has already said as much. As with other managers, R oss will either live or die by results because it’s a results based business

What counts as badly, that's the question.

I would guess playing crap and struggling against relegation would do it

Ok.

Let's say we finish 12th this season. Is that bad?

What about 8th next season, narrowly missing out on the play offs? Is that bad?

Then we follow that up with a 10th place in 2022/23? Is Ross still safe then?

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:11 pm They've said there's no safety net for him now.

Which all makes me wonder why he agreed to do the job on in the first place ?
We all know that he had deep reservations about taking on the number one job and from what was said when first offered the job, preferred being in the number two role, a far safer job to be in than being a football manager/chief coach, call the job what you like ! Casualty rates for being a manager in football are very high and he must have known that unless he achieved promotion or a high placing in the league, then a very good chance of losing his job altogether. Lastly, if he was pushed into the job against his better judgement, then I can only feel sorry for him.

Probably because he may never get such an opportunity ever again.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:43 pm Probably because he may never get such an opportunity ever again.

Or perhaps the worry that if he turned the job down, then next time a new manager came in, then he might be able to bring in his choice of number two ?
Professional Football is a stressful form of employment.

I thought Thor was the only conspiracy
Theorist we had on here

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:21 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:07 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:58 am Is Ling the team manager? Does the DOF really pick the team, or at least have massive influence on who is picked.
Does Ling decide the formation, & tactics?
I think Ling has far greater shall we say influence, that IMO, he should as Director of Football.
I read/heard, he goes in the dressing room during and before games, and at half time, sometimes, which again IMO isnt correct.
Be interested in other peoples views on this

Put it this way, if R oss does badly he’ll be sacked. The club has already said as much. As with other managers, R oss will either live or die by results because it’s a results based business

What counts as badly, that's the question.

And who decides. I get the feeling Teague has ambitions greater than Ling, that’s how I read the Q and A stuff.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:32 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:21 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:07 pm

Put it this way, if R oss does badly he’ll be sacked. The club has already said as much. As with other managers, R oss will either live or die by results because it’s a results based business

What counts as badly, that's the question.

And who decides. I get the feeling Teague has ambitions greater than Ling, that’s how I read the Q and A stuff.

Bullseye !