Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Ah, left back. We have been so very blessed at this position over the past 30-odd years with the likes of Terry Howard, Matty Lockwood, Charlie Daniels, Mike Cestor and Cestor Mike. Personally I don’t think this year’s vintage is all that far behind, which is good because it’s given me more time to sharpen my hatchet for the centre backs.

Retained: James Brophy, Jayden Sweeney, Joe Widdowson
In:
Out:

First Choice
James Brophy
Pros: Meep-meep!; wins plenty of free kicks (and penalties); drives the team forward.
Cons: Can overplay in dangerous defensive areas; haphazard crosser of the ball; still improving in the position.


In reserve
Joe Widdowson
Pros: Dependable performer; experienced head; potential for right-footed wondergoals once every 300 games.
Cons: Repeatedly lets the opposing winger run off his inside shoulder; gets a nosebleed when he crosses the halfway line; 6/10 is about the best you can expect.

Jayden Sweeney
Pros: Not Billy Jones.
Cons: Haven’t seen him play for more than 10 minutes yet, so unfair to judge him.

In a pinch
Dan Happe, Shadrach Ogie

Top 7 Bound?
Plenty of fans were disappointed when Broph got moved to left back, but I can’t say I was one of them. Attacking from left back gives him so much more room to use his electric pace - trickery in tight situations near the by-line isn’t really his forte. Having our playmaker at left back has worked in the past after all...

FFS Ling?
Nope. One of our best players has the shirt and there’s good depth behind him too. Even the ‘in a pinch’ players are better fullbacks than anyone we’ve got at right back. Pretty much the least worrying position in the entire side IMHO.

Agreed

It may just turn out to be Brophys best position, although part of me feels he is wasted there and could be more dangerous on the wing. He has had ample opportunity to establish himself as a winger and hasnt quite done it, probably because his final ball needs improvement. Its frustrating, he could play higher if he could add more goals and assists to his game.

The one thing I think you've neglected there is how good Widdowson is on the ball. He rarely loses it. He just isn't an attacking wingback.

spot on there. Id like to see Sweeney get some game time, what ive seen of him hes been quite good

Overly harsh on Widdowson.

He's a rock solid defender at this level.

Agree. Very harsh and the writer who has been good so far has this one wrong IMO. I would take Widdowson over Brophy. Brophy needs to play in his natural position and if there is no room to fit him in, not play at all if Widdowson is fit.

I presume Ogie is going to be discussed as a centre back, but most of his appearances in an Orient shirt have been as left back..........so what is he? left back or centre back?

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:04 am Overly harsh on Widdowson.

He's a rock solid defender at this level.

He is but is he really going to push the team to the next level? He's bang average. I dont dislike him but he's not gonna make any teams in the top 5.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:53 am I presume Ogie is going to be discussed as a centre back, but most of his appearances in an Orient shirt have been as left back..........so what is he? left back or centre back?

Based on how the squad was picked for most of last season... centre forward

I do like the style of these features, KMT are you the guy who runs the View from the West Stand blog? Very similar writing style, bonus points for Billy Jones reference

Agree entirely with KMT’s assessment of Widdowson. A lower league journeyman at best.

redintheface wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:38 pm Agree entirely with KMT’s assessment of Widdowson. A lower league journeyman at best.

Agree.

And while a fan of Happe, he's not a left back, so wouldn't be happy him playing there.

James Brophy is a left winger and should be played as such.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:16 amIt may just turn out to be Brophys best position, although part of me feels he is wasted there and could be more dangerous on the wing.

It already is. We just need to overcome his designation as a ‘winger’. Think Charlie Daniels. That conversion to left back and the subsequent partnership he struck up with Dean Cox is what could be accomplished.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:37 pm James Brophy is a left winger and should be played as such.

“Thierry Henry is a left winger and should be played as such.”

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:53 am I presume Ogie is going to be discussed as a centre back, but most of his appearances in an Orient shirt have been as left back..........so what is he? left back or centre back?

Up for discussion. His body type lends more towards a centre back. Hard to properly assess the young kids we haven’t seen much of, which is why I generally haven’t.

Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:08 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:37 pm James Brophy is a left winger and should be played as such.

“Thierry Henry is a left winger and should be played as such.”

Idiotic comparison.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:04 pm

Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:08 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:37 pm James Brophy is a left winger and should be played as such.

“Thierry Henry is a left winger and should be played as such.”

Idiotic comparison.

Why? It’s a player who was thought of as a left winger who turned out to be considerably more effective in another position. The level they play(ed) at is irrelevant. How about: “Charlie Daniels is a left winger and should be played as such”? Same principle.

Matt Lockwood was a central midfielder when he joined us. Andy Harris was a godawful right back who we converted into a slightly less godawful central midfielder. Dion Dublin was a Premier League striker who became a Premier League centre back. Position changes happen. Jobi McAnuff can play on either wing or in the middle. Is he just a ‘left winger’? To put Brophy in a small positional box - despite all evidence to the contrary, both at Orient and Swindon - is both narrow-minded and illogical.

Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:37 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:04 pm

Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:08 pm

“Thierry Henry is a left winger and should be played as such.”

Idiotic comparison.

Why? It’s a player who was thought of as a left winger who turned out to be considerably more effective in another position. The level they play(ed) at is irrelevant. How about: “Charlie Daniels is a left winger and should be played as such”? Same principle.

Matt Lockwood was a central midfielder when he joined us. Andy Harris was a godawful right back who we converted into a slightly less godawful central midfielder. Dion Dublin was a Premier League striker who became a Premier League centre back. Position changes happen. Jobi McAnuff can play on either wing or in the middle. Is he just a ‘left winger’? To put Brophy in a small positional box - despite all evidence to the contrary, both at Orient and Swindon - is both narrow-minded and illogical.

Playing Henry as a striker instead of a left winger isn’t that much of a change. He’s still essentially being as to do the same job. Henry also used to go wide and come back inside, to suggest he was an out and out striker is misleading.

Brophy is our quickest and most direct player. Playing him at left back completely limits his best assets other than the chance to cover for Coulson and Happe’s lack of pace. I’m well aware that players change position over time but playing Brophy there is a stop gap move, either play Widdowson there or get a better left back. We should be playing our best players in their best positions and building the team around them.

It was the same when we played Brophy as a number 10 at times. It just proves it’s a poor built squad with too many square pegs in round holes.

Jobi and Dublin changed positions at the end of their careers when their ability in their best position faded.

Disagree.

Having someone so pacy and so offensive as a full back is how the modern game has gone.

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:58 pm Disagree.

Having someone so pacy and so offensive as a full back is how the modern game has gone.

This. And considering that our options at right back are all overwhelmingly defensive, having a forward-thinking left back is vital to us being able to stretch the field.

Could be difficult to play with a over-lapping left back in a flat back four when you have right backs who are not that good defensively and maybe lack pace in the middle of defence.
Cisse could cover but could see him being dragged all over the place and not properly shielding the defence.
What i would say is the best positional change to left back at Leyton Orient was when Derrick Downing (right wing) to left back was a fantastic success. Downing was a great signing by George Petchey from M'boro i think and he was a class player.
The more i think about him that George Petchey was a top class coach/manager with forward thinking ideas.

Buy a pacey full back then.

I remember when Charlie Daniels was tearing it up as a left back for us some meatheads were still insisting he should have been playing left mid

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:34 am I remember when Charlie Daniels was tearing it up as a left back for us some meatheads were still insisting he should have been playing left mid

Everyone is a 'manager', even me. But we are all just amateurs with opinions in reality. But without these differing opinions, this MB would be terribly boring.