Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Reading this update from the club was interesting in regard to what might happen next with fans in stadiums vs streaming...

https://www.leytonorient.com/2020/08/03 ... ate-20-21/

So EFL are allowing it game by game, I see it as unlikely that fans will be in the stadium for any length of time given how Govt are trying their hardest to talk up a second wave so provided football can start at all having the streaming is great news.

Going forward I'd like to see streaming become a permanent fixture but be interested to see thoughts on here.

On one hand club gains access to a broader customer base no longer limited by geography. Let's assume a Streaming Ticket (see what I did there) costs the same in future as a Season Ticket... club would lose some income as a family would only need one ticket and short of a honesty box system there's no way to ensure only one pair of eyes watches. On the other hand that's offset by lower matchday costs and larger market for people watching.

Assuming ground then opens back up those who want to attend in person for the experience still would but those who aren't fussed could still support the club financially and get to watch live. What's not to like? No doubt EFL and TV money is the elephant in the room as usual though...

Its rare to see a turkey voting for Christmas


Lets see, spend Saturday afternoon watching Orient in the pissing cold & rain paying £20+ a ticket or sit in pub or at home and watch Liverpool v Man City in comfort in the warmth....

you've just voted to kill off all but the Premier League clubs

Nothing would induce me to sit at home and watch premiership over watching orient live even in the worst weather

Who said anything about watching premier league football over Orient? Read the post.

Being selfish I hope it’s extended. I’m not going to be able to get to games as I’m not renewing the ST. And not going to be able to get down there until at least next year. At this stage, with money considered I’d much more likely buy a stream than an actual match ticket.

There’s got to be at least 2-3k non ST holders who can’t or won’t be able to go to games who would pay a tenner for a stream.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:14 pm Who said anything about watching premier league football over Orient? Read the post.

Sorry teacher.I will try harder.bless

Stamford O wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:36 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:14 pm Who said anything about watching premier league football over Orient? Read the post.

Sorry teacher.I will try harder.bless

Please do. It’s not hard.

Altho it's what spen666 said

spen666 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:21 pm Its rare to see a turkey voting for Christmas


Lets see, spend Saturday afternoon watching Orient in the p*ssing cold & rain paying £20+ a ticket or sit in pub or at home and watch Liverpool v Man City in comfort in the warmth....

you've just voted to kill off all but the Premier League clubs

Not just that but also the associated spend that the club make profits from on matchdays, e.g. matchday hospitality/gallery seats, programmes, drinks in the South Stand bar, catering, people popping into the club shop and buying something they may otherwise not have.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:14 pm Who said anything about watching premier league football over Orient? Read the post.

They are not going to change the law to allow only Orient to stream games.

If Orient are able to stream games every other club will be allowed to as well.


As someone else said, even without other games,you lose the matchday revenue from those who stay home, eg food, drink, programmes, club shop, not to mention the harm to local economy.

spen666 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:31 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:14 pm Who said anything about watching premier league football over Orient? Read the post.

They are not going to change the law to allow only Orient to stream games.

If Orient are able to stream games every other club will be allowed to as well.


As someone else said, even without other games,you lose the matchday revenue from those who stay home, eg food, drink, programmes, club shop, not to mention the harm to local economy.

Who said anything about changing the law for only orient?

The efl have lifted the rule whilst fans can’t attend games. There’s probably a question over opening it up further for people who aren’t comfortable going to games at the moment and also longer term, as a revenue stream for people who live too far away or can’t afford games + travel, for example

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:35 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:31 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:14 pm Who said anything about watching premier league football over Orient? Read the post.

They are not going to change the law to allow only Orient to stream games.

If Orient are able to stream games every other club will be allowed to as well.


As someone else said, even without other games,you lose the matchday revenue from those who stay home, eg food, drink, programmes, club shop, not to mention the harm to local economy.

Who said anything about changing the law for only orient?

The efl have lifted the rule whilst fans can’t attend games. There’s probably a question over opening it up further for people who aren’t comfortable going to games at the moment and also longer term, as a revenue stream for people who live too far away or can’t afford games + travel, for example

So like I say the choice is sit in pub or at home and watch in comfort with a few beers Liverpool v Man City or go out in pissing rain and cold to watch Orient v Carlisle?

It's not hard to see what is more attractive to most people.

The rule exists to protect clubs outside the top division, yet some fans of little clubs seem to want to abolish this protection.

Turkey's voting for Christmas.



The Premier League would scrap the rule if they could as they would earn massive extra sums from TV rights at expense of all other clubs

There are no turkeys voting for Christmas. Whilst no one can attend matches, streaming matches is logical allow supporters to maintain their interest and producing additional revenue for clubs. When the first supporters are allowed back to attend Orient games, I have no doubt that conditions will be very restrictive and more people will wish to attend than permitted. I would anticipate this being true at the majority of league teams. Again allowing streaming would be logical. Whether to stream only becomes a debate when we are back to clubs having spare capacity with no fans wishing to attend. IMO it will be a long time before we are back in that position.

Until this madness is finally out of the way and normality hopefully returns, then I'd certainly support it - BUT on the basis it is a short-term solution; and doesn't become a permanent, ongoing option. I've seen what a negative impact Sky TV has had on the sport of Speedway.

Nothing beats being at a live event; even considering the travelling, additional costs, etc. Going to a live match lives in the memory; sometimes for the rest of your life. Watching a game on TV however, is often forgotten about the moment that you reach for the remote.

However, if it brings in some revenue and retains interest, then it's a better opfion than nothing during these restricted times.

Yeah I’ve got no idea what spen Is going on about either.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:07 pm Yeah I’ve got no idea what spen Is going on about either.

Shame you can't read then isn't it

Reading this update from the club was interesting in regard to what might happen next with fans in stadiums vs streaming...

....

Going forward I'd like to see streaming become a permanent fixture but be interested to see thoughts on here.

On one hand club gains access to a broader customer base no longer limited by geography. Let's assume a Streaming Ticket (see what I did there) costs the same in future as a Season Ticket... club would lose some income as a family would only need one ticket and short of a honesty box system there's no way to ensure only one pair of eyes watches. On the other hand that's offset by lower matchday costs and larger market for people watching.

Assuming ground then opens back up those who want to attend in person for the experience still would but those who aren't fussed could still support the club financially and get to watch live. What's not to like? No doubt EFL and TV money is the elephant in the room as usual though...

Hmmm let's see what OP was referring to and what I was responding to



I remember now why I stopped posting on here

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:27 pm Being selfish I hope it’s extended. I’m not going to be able to get to games as I’m not renewing the ST. And not going to be able to get down there until at least next year. At this stage, with money considered I’d much more likely buy a stream than an actual match ticket.

There’s got to be at least 2-3k non ST holders who can’t or won’t be able to go to games who would pay a tenner for a stream.

Correct.

spen666 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:13 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:07 pm Yeah I’ve got no idea what spen Is going on about either.

Shame you can't read then isn't it

Reading this update from the club was interesting in regard to what might happen next with fans in stadiums vs streaming...

....

Going forward I'd like to see streaming become a permanent fixture but be interested to see thoughts on here.

On one hand club gains access to a broader customer base no longer limited by geography. Let's assume a Streaming Ticket (see what I did there) costs the same in future as a Season Ticket... club would lose some income as a family would only need one ticket and short of a honesty box system there's no way to ensure only one pair of eyes watches. On the other hand that's offset by lower matchday costs and larger market for people watching.

Assuming ground then opens back up those who want to attend in person for the experience still would but those who aren't fussed could still support the club financially and get to watch live. What's not to like? No doubt EFL and TV money is the elephant in the room as usual though...

Hmmm let's see what OP was referring to and what I was responding to



I remember now why I stopped posting on here

Probably as you got tired of reading your own turgid WUMs.

Simply put if streaming is available for all games at all levels at all times for eternity then straight away you've lost your away supporters. There will be a hardcore but it'll dwindle.

I mean I love an away game but throw in work constraints, family life, weather, performances in the pitch and sometimes just going to Macclesfield in the pissing down just doesn't become enjoyable anymore when you have to drop about £100-150 on it.

The next will be new supporters. Why would you pay a £10 for an Orient match when you could pay the same for a Wimbledon one on League One, a Millwall one in the Championship, and a Spurs one in the Premier League. For us here on an Orient forum it doesn't bear thinking about watching another team, but we'll definitely lose out on the casual fans that do come along and do occasionally stick with us.

As soon as capacity is no longer an issue for most clubs the sooner the 3pm Saturday blackout rule is reinstated the better.

However on that note I'd be keen for one off matches, on application to the FA or whoever once sold out, to be made available for streaming. Now THAT makes sense. Or if away sections got sold out or stuff like that.

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:04 am .....

However on that note I'd be keen for one off matches, on application to the FA or whoever once sold out, to be made available for streaming. Now THAT makes sense. Or if away sections got sold out or stuff like that.

So that's most Premiership match on live then.


Liverpool v Man City in warmth & comfort with a beer in hand or dragging yourself out to go to Orient v Carlisle in freezing rain....


Back to the same issues.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:27 pm Being selfish I hope it’s extended. I’m not going to be able to get to games as I’m not renewing the ST. And not going to be able to get down there until at least next year. At this stage, with money considered I’d much more likely buy a stream than an actual match ticket.

There’s got to be at least 2-3k non ST holders who can’t or won’t be able to go to games who would pay a tenner for a stream.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:48 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:27 pm Being selfish I hope it’s extended. I’m not going to be able to get to games as I’m not renewing the ST. And not going to be able to get down there until at least next year. At this stage, with money considered I’d much more likely buy a stream than an actual match ticket.

There’s got to be at least 2-3k non ST holders who can’t or won’t be able to go to games who would pay a tenner for a stream.

Correct.

How do you know 3k will be a tenner? Pure speculation.

spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:12 am

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:04 am .....

However on that note I'd be keen for one off matches, on application to the FA or whoever once sold out, to be made available for streaming. Now THAT makes sense. Or if away sections got sold out or stuff like that.

So that's most Premiership match on live then.


Liverpool v Man City in warmth & comfort with a beer in hand or dragging yourself out to go to Orient v Carlisle in freezing rain....


Back to the same issues.

Yes but just bear in mind most of the top 6 games are usually outside the 3pm window anyway so will be televised regardless.

And really apart from the top 6 I doubt there is much more interest in Burnley Vs Palace than any other match. However I still feel there is enough to take the casuals from us over time.

I do agree with you though. Maybe it wasn't posed in the original question but this is turkeys voting for Xmas.

You need a reason to go to a football match, currently that for us is sentiment, because we've always done and to meet our pals. But once that goes then there will be no desire to go to games.

spen666 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:13 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:07 pm Yeah I’ve got no idea what spen Is going on about either.

Shame you can't read then isn't it

Reading this update from the club was interesting in regard to what might happen next with fans in stadiums vs streaming...

....

Going forward I'd like to see streaming become a permanent fixture but be interested to see thoughts on here.

On one hand club gains access to a broader customer base no longer limited by geography. Let's assume a Streaming Ticket (see what I did there) costs the same in future as a Season Ticket... club would lose some income as a family would only need one ticket and short of a honesty box system there's no way to ensure only one pair of eyes watches. On the other hand that's offset by lower matchday costs and larger market for people watching.

Assuming ground then opens back up those who want to attend in person for the experience still would but those who aren't fussed could still support the club financially and get to watch live. What's not to like? No doubt EFL and TV money is the elephant in the room as usual though...

Hmmm let's see what OP was referring to and what I was responding to



I remember now why I stopped posting on here

Can you point out who mentioned Premier League before you did? I can only see 'EFL', but then again, maybe I'm the one who cant read...

A good debate. While fans aren’t allowed into games it’s an obvious option to look at, and one I’d take up if available.

There must be huge potential for increased revenue for clubs by charging to live stream though. The challenge for the authorities would be to put a process in place and for it not to unduly influence gates, for fans and atmosphere are needed, away fans too, and of course there’s nothing like being there.

Take me at 100 miles away. Travel time restricts my attendances, but if I could stream some matches, I’d be interested. It costs me way more than the ticket price to attend currently, 200 miles of fuel to pay for. But I’m a registered member, the club know how many games I usually attend and where I live, technology will tell them distance from me to ground; so if they offered me a tailored package of (say) attend so many games and I can pay to stream so many others, that would sound like a good deal for both them and me. O’s fans further away could get a different package with more options to stream; for those who live on the doorstep, the encouragement should be to attend, so streaming is more cost prohibitive.

Premier League cost to stream would of course be more, their ticket prices are more anyway, don’t see that would be a big issue. All this has to be worth exploring, I’d suggest it’s exactly the kind of thing the football authorities should be investigating as a priority for the good of the game, the technology exists for it to happen.

I can only speak for myself and I appreciate my circumstances are different from most people but the club would probably get more money from me this way. As I live 400 hundred miles away I don't attend games very often. I put money into the club as best I can and attend some games. Not sure if I'd buy a season ticket for streaming but I'd definitely pay to watch some games on a game by game basis. This wouldn't impact me attending games when I can as I still love the live experience so overall the club would benefit.

However, I'm well aware of the longer term implications and I share the concern that it would eventually lead to a permanent drop in attendances.

So on balance, yes as an interim measure but no as a permanent thing.