Independent Leyton Orient Forum

This week my firm has stated a ‘conversation’ with employees about the future of how we work.

Among the topics being discussed are:

• If staff can, and want to, work from home, should that become the norm?

• Could we consolidate our office space so that we retain a much smaller footprint that provides space for face-to-face collaboration and ‘hot desks’ for those who cannot (or do not want to) work from home?

We’ve always been a company that is a late adopter of technology and is slow to catch up with trends. So, for us to be considering this is quite a thing. And the last few months has demonstrated that over 95% of our workforce is capable to carrying out their roles without any office facilities.

We’ve previously had large offices in central London, Bristol, Manchester and a few other regional hubs. For us to even consider this, along with the many other companies thinking the same, could have a massive impact on city economies and land values.

Anyone else know of companies thinking the same? The government may want everyone back to ‘normal’ by November, but from what many CEOs are saying, that may not ever happen. And if not, it could devastate many service sector jobs, and impact on the supply/demand weighting for housing.

Although semi-retired, my principal remaining regular contract is with a company that supplies site services (catering) to a large employer across multiple sites in London, Scotland and across the rest of the UK. The client company has stated that nearly all of its staff will continue to work from home until next year at least. I strongly suspect that they'll reduce their office footprint along the lines your company is exploring (and I'm sure that many, many companies will be doing the same).

I can't see much future in the business of supplying services to large offices - e.g. catering, cleaning, guarding/security etc - long term. I'd imagine one of the key outcomes of this wrt work will be that much much more business will be concluded remotely. I'd also imagine business travel will drop dramatically too, with the knock-on effects on hotels and transport.

Looks like semi-retirement is about to become retirement.

We'll definitely see more people working from home more. But the effect will likely be gradual, and the financial pressures driving some of it will abate too, as the invisible hand brings commercial rents down commensurately. Obvs there will be a short-term shock over the next few months, as the less resilient businesses go under, but I suspect the transition to widespread home-working is a bit exaggerated at the moment.


And, setting aside the economics, let's not forget that office life is actually a great leveller. Lots of people who otherwise wouldn't spend any time with or near one another have to learn to get along, and may even occasionally learn something about each other and themselves as a result. All the current chat about us coping just fine homeworking is also overblown IMHO - we are currently drawing down on social capital built up in human relationships over many months and years. If this situation persists eg another 2 years, we'd really start to see the effect on productivity of us all working remotely and never seeing one another.

OyinbO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:04 pm And, setting aside the economics, let's not forget that office life is actually a great leveller. Lots of people who otherwise wouldn't spend any time with or near one another have to learn to get along, and may even occasionally learn something about each other and themselves as a result. All the current chat about us coping just fine homeworking is also overblown IMHO - we are currently drawing down on social capital built up in human relationships over many months and years. If this situation persists eg another 2 years, we'd really start to see the effect on productivity of us all working remotely and never seeing one another.

Yeah, that's along the lines of what we're thinking, hence why we'd not look to close down our offices completely, but retain a smaller space to enable some of that social interaction which is important. But I can definitely see the real test coming as companies begin to recruit and integrate new employees.

RBS have told 55,000 employees that they can work from home.

I can honestly see this becoming the norm with a lot of companies as they can reduce costs by having smaller floor space and also benefits the employees that want to as it reduces travelling costs.

The only issue that might arise is that I've heard of a handful of firms that have wanted to cut pay as people are not forking out for travelling.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:36 pm This week my firm has stated a ‘conversation’ with employees about the future of how we work.

Among the topics being discussed are:

• If staff can, and want to, work from home, should that become the norm?

• Could we consolidate our office space so that we retain a much smaller footprint that provides space for face-to-face collaboration and ‘hot desks’ for those who cannot (or do not want to) work from home?

We’ve always been a company that is a late adopter of technology and is slow to catch up with trends. So, for us to be considering this is quite a thing. And the last few months has demonstrated that over 95% of our workforce is capable to carrying out their roles without any office facilities.

We’ve previously had large offices in central London, Bristol, Manchester and a few other regional hubs. For us to even consider this, along with the many other companies thinking the same, could have a massive impact on city economies and land values.

Anyone else know of companies thinking the same? The government may want everyone back to ‘normal’ by November, but from what many CEOs are saying, that may not ever happen. And if not, it could devastate many service sector jobs, and impact on the supply/demand weighting for housing.

Fight against going back

You can't board all day with the directors looking over your shoulder

Fellowo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:29 pm RBS have told 55,000 employees that they can work from home.

I can honestly see this becoming the norm with a lot of companies as they can reduce costs by having smaller floor space and also benefits the employees that want to as it reduces travelling costs.

The only issue that might arise is that I've heard of a handful of firms that have wanted to cut pay as people are not forking out for travelling.

That and the companies (And thousands who work for them) that rely on commuter footfall to survive

Looking forward to continued increase in boarding activity as home working becomes the norm

Sounds like buying shares in companies who rent a lot of floor space will be a good option. They'll save millions a year on it and the corresponding expenses

I read that office buildings are actually pretty energy efficient, so people working from home means heating multiple buildings much less efficiently. Even removing the commute makes this less 'green'.

What we need are far more home-working hubs, which outside town or city centres area pretty thin on the ground.

Worked for a company with offices in Leicester. 15 odd years ago they took the plunge and at great cost allowed 150 call centre staff to work from home. Many logistical, technical and safety issues had to be overcome. They were.

Six months later the system collapsed. For many of the generally young, mostly female call centre staff, working from home cut them off completely from the personal interaction they got meeting colleagues. For some they never left their homes, never met anybody, reduced the chances of relationships, meeting friends outside work etc etc. Lonely.

Disaster. So much pressure on the company to set up the office based call centre, which it did. Lovely to watch people coming back happy.

In my job I could easily have worked from home quite often. Hated it. People need the interaction with other people. Working from home ain’t all it’s cracked up to be for many people.

Interesting Dunners. I was having a conversation with a local estate agent last night and he said that all the agencies in the area are swamped. Unprecedented demand from all over. A house close to me was just bought in an auction for way about guide, 200 viewings and the person who bought it was from London and had not even seen it. If you are a investor selling city and buying country probably a bit of a no brainer with a 5-10 year view considering the huge disparity in prices and potential long term shift in people’s work patterns.

Real Al wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:08 pm I read that office buildings are actually pretty energy efficient, so people working from home means heating multiple buildings much less efficiently. Even removing the commute makes this less 'green'.

What we need are far more home-working hubs, which outside town or city centres area pretty thin on the ground.

Yes but who cares about that? Why would people leave the comfort of their homes if they dont have to?

Adz wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:01 pm Sounds like buying shares in companies who rent a lot of floor space will be a good option. They'll save millions a year on it and the corresponding expenses

Just get shares in pornhub.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:29 pm Worked for a company with offices in Leicester. 15 odd years ago they took the plunge and at great cost allowed 150 call centre staff to work from home. Many logistical, technical and safety issues had to be overcome. They were.

Six months later the system collapsed. For many of the generally young, mostly female call centre staff, working from home cut them off completely from the personal interaction they got meeting colleagues. For some they never left their homes, never met anybody, reduced the chances of relationships, meeting friends outside work etc etc. Lonely.

Disaster. So much pressure on the company to set up the office based call centre, which it did. Lovely to watch people coming back happy.

In my job I could easily have worked from home quite often. Hated it. People need the interaction with other people. Working from home ain’t all it’s cracked up to be for many people.

Yep, I can understand this. The loss of general day to day interaction and socialising is already being noted as an issue.

It is all very well working from home but would the companies agree to pay for:-
Electricity
Heating
Computer hardware and maintenance
Software and its security and maintenance
Telephone line(s)/Internet
Part of the council tax
Cost of converting a room to an office so the employee can concentrate on their work, if they have the room to spare.

People should not just say "great I'd love to work at home", without asking for renumeration, so the company can cut its overheads and reap the benefits.
I also think that a lot of people wouldn't want to work from home mainly because you can get away from work at the end of the day whereas working from home they would feel "obliged" to carry on and work extra for nothing.

Surely some sort of compromise would be best for all? Although this may mean hotdesking which doesnt seem like an option while covid is about.

What about Christmas parties? How do you cop off with someone your shouldn't have?

my company is downsizing it's office space by half and going to make everyone work at home for a minimum of 2 days a week by the end of 2021.

I can't work from home and have a 1 hour 45 minute commute each way through Central London

Working from home sounds fantastic so if you can, do it

Rumours we are closing a huge part of the office. My commute was 4 hours a day and about £600 a month which is a blessing not having to fork out. I dont really miss the face to face interactions if i'm honest but its hard managing people from a far, but not impossible. My work have been pretty good paying for loads of office equipment that you can expense, or they send out.

I think it's good that companies and staff are realising that just because historically you've always commuted and worked 5 days a week, 9-5, it doesn't have to always be like that. Last year i started planning on taking a sabbatical and then going down to 4 days a week and working from home 3 of those days. And i think this might make those conversations easier.

Long term there's a chance that:
- inner city rents come down massively
- local independent shops get more custom
- business isn't limited to talent in the immediate vicinity, it opens up recruitment to the best people whether they live in cornwall or the highlands.
- overheads come down like heating, air con, cleaning, etc...
- over a longer period people need less money and can work less because they aren't paying for a commute and £8 pret lunches every day meaning quality of life improves and companies wage bill comes down.

I agree that it doesn't work for everyone. Our call centre staff dont get much opportunity for zoom meetings and therefore theres not much interaction with each other. And even some people in my team, who can adequately do their job from home, and have lots of meetings with each other, still just miss being in an office. There's a middle ground somewhere.

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:30 pm What about Christmas parties? How do you cop off with someone your shouldn't have?

Some actual time spent together is good for your work

For too many years both private and public sector organisations have owned or rented too much space, particularly office space. The current climate is to reduce that footprint as a way of improving the bottom line either in terms of profitability or the need to direct scarce public sector resources into the front line. The truth is that there is good and bad in a rationalisation.

Few organisations seriously put the welfare and wellbeing of their staff at the heart of their decision making. Some just see the negative effects on their people as collateral damage. Overall there should be benefits in not having to build infrastructure but what does that mean for the labour force that builds it. Every scenario I see and hear is a potential small, medium or large shitstorm for employment. Some will benefit but I am seriously worried about the overall negative effects on the economy from greater unemployment, increasing mental and physical debility and a lack of social interaction. The rush away form places like London is going to put even more strain on local services and infrastructure in rural areas.

So, what you're saying is; we need hoverboards, jet packs and holodecks?