Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:33 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:06 pm The Tory party has moved more to the right over the last 7 or 8 years, than it has ever been before, but it seems for an awful lot of people it's still not right wing enough, hence the migration to Reform UK .
Is this country a racist country, or am I reading it wrong?

There seems to be a constant attack on Muslims on social media, and I just can't see why.
Muslims have never prevented me doing anything I wanted, ever.
What's going on out there?

I'd say more thick than racist.

Social media is pretty batshit and not a reflection of peoples actual views. Try talking to some real people, away from a computer.

I've not much time for crazy religious cults and the integration of such things into the uk is very poor. People see their communities change and dont like it. They also dont like terrorism and seemingly unsolvable problems like small boats crossing the channel etc. (not saying these things are exclusively muslim problems)

Not much stereotyping or generalising there at all.

Whats the problem?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:36 pm New gas power stations to be built, with private investment cash.

If private investments are interested then there's money to be made, so why cant we just do the same thing with public money?

But then the private investors wouldn’t be able to take profits from state contracts.

Is that better for the economy?

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:07 pm Is that better for the economy?

Yes, taking our taxpayer money and handing it over to private corporations and individuals so they can buy up assets or squirrel it away offshore is better for the economy

We could have the state own and control vital public infrastructure, but allow private investment in a controlled and regulated way so that there is a balance. For example, allow private bidders to build the power station, but on condition that payments are staggered as construction quality targets are met. To stop them squirrelling it offshore we could also impose restrictions that private entitles most be solely UK based and pay full taxes here.

But, we'll properly spook global capital markets, as well as annoy all those Chinese, Saudi, Russian (er, I mean Kazakhstan), US etc investors. The result will be a run on the pound, crashing our pension funds and an overthrow of our elected officials. So there's just no other way.

If its in private hands, they'll charge us more to increase profits. So thats more money spent and tax receipts in the economy?

Why are govt so keen on this sort of thing?

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:28 pm We could have the state own and control vital public infrastructure, but allow private investment in a controlled and regulated way so that there is a balance. For example, allow private bidders to build the power station, but on condition that payments are staggered as construction quality targets are met. To stop them squirrelling it offshore we could also impose restrictions that private entitles most be solely UK based and pay full taxes here.

But, we'll properly spook global capital markets, as well as annoy all those Chinese, Saudi, Russian (er, I mean Kazakhstan), US etc investors. The result will be a run on the pound, crashing our pension funds and an overthrow of our elected officials. So there's just no other way.

Sounds like the economy is held to ransom by big business.

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:28 pm We could have the state own and control vital public infrastructure, but allow private investment in a controlled and regulated way so that there is a balance. For example, allow private bidders to build the power station, but on condition that payments are staggered as construction quality targets are met. To stop them squirrelling it offshore we could also impose restrictions that private entitles most be solely UK based and pay full taxes here.

But, we'll properly spook global capital markets, as well as annoy all those Chinese, Saudi, Russian (er, I mean Kazakhstan), US etc investors. The result will be a run on the pound, crashing our pension funds and an overthrow of our elected officials. So there's just no other way.

And your second paragraph is exactly what the City/Goverment rolls out every time anyone floats the idea of Nationalisation and/or taking some level of control of our facilities. I’m sure you know this already, but at some point we need to give 2 fingers to the big Corporations.

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:53 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:28 pm We could have the state own and control vital public infrastructure, but allow private investment in a controlled and regulated way so that there is a balance. For example, allow private bidders to build the power station, but on condition that payments are staggered as construction quality targets are met. To stop them squirrelling it offshore we could also impose restrictions that private entitles most be solely UK based and pay full taxes here.

But, we'll properly spook global capital markets, as well as annoy all those Chinese, Saudi, Russian (er, I mean Kazakhstan), US etc investors. The result will be a run on the pound, crashing our pension funds and an overthrow of our elected officials. So there's just no other way.

And your second paragraph is exactly what the City/Goverment rolls out every time anyone floats the idea of Nationalisation and/or taking some level of control of our facilities. I’m sure you know this already, but at some point we need to give 2 fingers to the big Corporations.

Yep. Obviously, we should never had gone down this route to begin with. But, while we could or should give 2 fingers to the big corporations, it would not be consequence free either. That's the problem with privatisation, transitioning the economy into a finance-led model, and global integration. Once you go that way it's very hard to go back, even if there's whelming public support.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:31 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:28 pm We could have the state own and control vital public infrastructure, but allow private investment in a controlled and regulated way so that there is a balance. For example, allow private bidders to build the power station, but on condition that payments are staggered as construction quality targets are met. To stop them squirrelling it offshore we could also impose restrictions that private entitles most be solely UK based and pay full taxes here.

But, we'll properly spook global capital markets, as well as annoy all those Chinese, Saudi, Russian (er, I mean Kazakhstan), US etc investors. The result will be a run on the pound, crashing our pension funds and an overthrow of our elected officials. So there's just no other way.

Sounds like the economy is held to ransom by big business.

Well, yes, that's the whole point.

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 4:04 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:53 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:28 pm We could have the state own and control vital public infrastructure, but allow private investment in a controlled and regulated way so that there is a balance. For example, allow private bidders to build the power station, but on condition that payments are staggered as construction quality targets are met. To stop them squirrelling it offshore we could also impose restrictions that private entitles most be solely UK based and pay full taxes here.

But, we'll properly spook global capital markets, as well as annoy all those Chinese, Saudi, Russian (er, I mean Kazakhstan), US etc investors. The result will be a run on the pound, crashing our pension funds and an overthrow of our elected officials. So there's just no other way.

And your second paragraph is exactly what the City/Goverment rolls out every time anyone floats the idea of Nationalisation and/or taking some level of control of our facilities. I’m sure you know this already, but at some point we need to give 2 fingers to the big Corporations.

Yep. Obviously, we should never had gone down this route to begin with. But, while we could or should give 2 fingers to the big corporations, it would not be consequence free either. That's the problem with privatisation, transitioning the economy into a finance-led model, and global integration. Once you go that way it's very hard to go back, even if there's whelming public support.

I agree. Of course, it's becoming even harder as time passes and these leeches take more and more out of the public purse. However, if we don't begin to examine how to untangle ourselves from their greedy little grasp we'll be forever making the Corporates rich at our expense. Whether we should go for Big Bang or do it in a more subtle fashion is debatable. We've always had dire forecasts from the City e.g. increasing taxes at the top means we'll lose our best people - it works fine, don't change it basically. Problem is it only works fine for the rich - albeit they are prepared to pay big wages to City workers who make them even richer. Brexit was about "taking back control" wasn't it? How does that work in the scenario you paint where we are whoring ourselves out to any crackpot regime who realises that this Country is for sale?

Nah, let's just keep things as they are, but blame the immigrants.

Anyway, going back to poor old Frank Hestor. He's just issued a statement which I'm sure will finally draw a line under unfortunate episode.

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 4:16 pm Nah, let's just keep things as they are, but blame the immigrants.

Great idea. However, I don't think you're the first to have that thought....

The Right Wing Tory Press are constantly rattling on about how high taxation is. All Public services have been so pared, that they are practically on their knees. Even Labour are complicit. Last week, the Labour Bod on Politics Today at lunchtime, was moaning that we have the highest taxation burden since the early 1950's ( not long after the War ).
I benefit from being elderly and started work in the mid 1960's. The tax burden never seemed to be onerous on us; you always get moaners, mind, worrying that they are paying a soupçon more than someone else. I was a Civil Servant: we were well funded, had all the laboratory equipment for the job, working in brand new labs, plenty of staff. There were Police everywhere, enough doctors & nurses, and no worries about the wheels of the Justice System. How was this all paid for? In those days we had plenty of profitable Nationalised Industries :gas, electricity, Post Office Telephones, airlines, even Thomas Cook. All this enterprises brought loot into the Government's coffers.
Then Thatcher sold off the family Silver, bringing another huge injection into the Governments coffers. But after that disappeared, a huge black hole was beginning to appear. Austerity was and still is , seen as the solution. Really?
Governments are gonna have to make the UK populace bite the bullet and cough up for the past disastrous mistakes.

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 4:17 pm Anyway, going back to poor old Frank Hestor. He's just issued a statement which I'm sure will finally draw a line under unfortunate episode.

3rd person fool

Genuinely impressed at his spox attempting to reassure everyone that his comments which specifically zero in on her gender and ethnicity are in fact not about either her gender or ethnicity.

Tory mayor contest ad showed New York instead of London.................The Tories are becoming derisory..........https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpw05l5p6d7o

Another one jumps ship.

Is she off to slaughter the lamb?

Latest MRP of 15,000 people

Total seats:

Labour: 468
Conservative: 98
SNP: 41
Lib: 22
Plaid: 2
Green: 0


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/00ee ... 77b8599dec

Another leadership election this year could get that number down to 50

I'm actually starting to develop some weird admiration for those who are still thinking of voting Tory.

*opens massive packet of biscuits