Independent Leyton Orient Forum

All clubs in league 2 are set for a meeting later today where the struggling clubs are set to ask to end the season now. They are proposing a vote on it as they cannot afford to run games without the playing public.

On a side note the PFA are still in discussions on how to deal with expired contracts dated 30/6. They are saying that all contracts must be extended and that clubs can't pick and choose who to keep on that basis. There are hundreds affected by this.

It will be interesting to see how things develop later today.

Might as well. It ain't going to happen safely anyway.

I still say you have to finish this season. If you write of next season then so be it.

I'd imagine it's the clubs at the bottom pushing hardest for this you lose a lot of funding if you fall out of the EFL.

Stevenage leading the charge

JimbO wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:06 am I still say you have to finish this season. If you write of next season then so be it.

I'd imagine it's the clubs at the bottom pushing hardest for this you lose a lot of funding if you fall out of the EFL.

Wow. That makes economic sense. Write off the income for a full season to play 9 or 10 games to complete a season after X number of months break in a manner that will bear no resemblance to the games already completed.

maybe so but the litigation you'll get if people are denied promotion will also cost an arm and a leg. I'm not saying to scrap the next season maybe modify the amount of games you play within in it. split the division into 2 say north and south and play the teams in your league twice with the top two in each being promoted and the bottom one being relegated. So you'll have a 22 game next season.

I can't see clubs taking legal action, more so in Leagues 1 and 2.

1. It would cost money that they don't have.
2. The next season would have to put on hold whilst the action is resolved thus costing the other clubs money that they don't have.

Why not finish the season with all clubs playing the same amount of games meaning in our division, the season was 37 games long
It leaves just 8 teams to play 1 game. That is a reasonably sized season. Promotion and relegation as normal without playoffs. It means that for those who could have made the playoffs should have done better throughout the season and those at the top deserve to he there. Same for the relegation situation.

POSHO wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:06 am Why not finish the season with all clubs playing the same amount of games meaning in our division, the season was 37 games long...

That would leave 4th place as the only contentious position. Cheltenham one point behind Exeter with a game in hand and a better goal difference could play for a draw in their extra game. Alternatively have the two of them play off for the 4th spot.

Also Swindon have game in hand on leaders and on same points but with a slightly poorer goal difference.

Stevenage should go down regardless.

Needs to be a amendment to the rules, something like Rugby World Cup where if a fixture is not played it is deemed a scoreless draw.

Playing for a particular result is part of the game. It happens plenty of times especially on the last game of the season. For me Stevenage, Bolton and Southend NOT being relegated would be a travesty. I'm only mentioning those teams because it affects us

Just finish the season now. Seems really daft to have 2 impacted seasons when you could have just one. Call the results as they are (if you need to make all unplayed games scoreless draws then that sounds reasonable)

You have to make decisions based on facts - what HAS happened, rather than what MIGHT happen, in matches. 3/4 of a season is not ideal, but it's a reasonable number of games and everyone has played everyone else.

If needs be, don't have relegations - expand leagues as necessary and sort that out with more relegation spots next year. That way, the only people negatively affected would be the teams who MIGHT have managed to get into a promotion spot if results had gone their way - and for those teams, well it's bad luck, but you had the chance to get into those spots during the first 3/4 of the season.

I don't think clubs can sue the league, can they? Isn't that one of the rules of being "in the organisation" that you can't sue the "organisation"? Otherwise you'd have contentious offside decisions that affect promotion getting decided in Court, rather than on the pitch.

No, teams have to promoted and relegated otherwise the season was pointless. Making all remaing games scoreless draws would affect the 8 teams as mentioned. I'm sure sure some other teams would object, ala Exeter

I think we're arguing for pretty much the same thing.

Unfortunately, I don't think the 8 clubs with a game in hand will be able to play their outstanding games any time soon even if, by some miracle, these games were against each other (if it was then you could do it with 4 matches, which is still going to be a problem, given that there doesn't seem to be a way yet to break distancing safely).

If we need to end the season, and I think we do, and we need to have promotion and relegation (otherwise it's pointless), then the only sensible and quick (and safe) way seems to be to work it out on points per game so far.

Also, having looked at the table - there's no Relegation or Promotion spot that can be affected by any of those clubs on 36 games having another result. The only positions that could change would be Swindon could overtake Crewe as Champions - so what ? they're both promoted anyway. Cheltenham could move from 5th to 4th, but again, so what - they're still only in Playoff position and the Playoffs won't be happening.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:19 am Stevenage leading the charge

No harm to Stevenage but if this is the case. They will have to be relegated.

StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:26 pm Also, having looked at the table - there's no Relegation or Promotion spot that can be affected by any of those clubs on 36 games having another result. The only positions that could change would be Swindon could overtake Crewe as Champions - so what ? they're both promoted anyway. Cheltenham could move from 5th to 4th, but again, so what - they're still only in Playoff position and the Playoffs won't be happening.

What about 4th promotion slot? Shouldn't that go to team in 4th place?

But if playoffs are not happening then the top 4 should be promoted automatically, thus the Cheltenham game would be relevant

The games are
Forest Green v Orient
Cheltenham v Newport
Mansfield v Swindon
Stevanage v Walsall

RientO wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:23 am

POSHO wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:06 am Why not finish the season with all clubs playing the same amount of games meaning in our division, the season was 37 games long...

That would leave 4th place as the only contentious position. Cheltenham one point behind Exeter with a game in hand and a better goal difference could play for a draw in their extra game. Alternatively have the two of them play off for the 4th spot.

Also Swindon have game in hand on leaders and on same points but with a slightly poorer goal difference.

Stevenage should go down regardless.

Needs to be a amendment to the rules, something like Rugby World Cup where if a fixture is not played it is deemed a scoreless draw.

I'd do a rollback to calculate it, rolling back every team's points haul based on the lowest number of games that any team in the division has played.

So if one team has played 28 games and everyone else 31-33, every team's points haul is recalculated to what they had achieved after their 28th game.

Am I right in saying that L2 could choose not to relegate a team but still accept the NL winner and be at 24 teams? So maybe they take two NL teams as usual and then relegate 3 from L2 the following season.

POSHO wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:44 pm The games are
Forest Green v Orient
Cheltenham v Newport
Mansfield v Swindon
Stevanage v Walsall

So only 2 of any significance, unless there is EFL prize money involved in which case Walsall could go from 14th to 11th (or 10th with a 12 goal win).
Orient could gain one place with a win or drop one place if they lose by 10 goals, so hardly matters. Similar for Forest Green who could go up one place with a win or drop one if Walsall and Orient win.

RientO wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:42 pm

StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:26 pm Also, having looked at the table - there's no Relegation or Promotion spot that can be affected by any of those clubs on 36 games having another result. The only positions that could change would be Swindon could overtake Crewe as Champions - so what ? they're both promoted anyway. Cheltenham could move from 5th to 4th, but again, so what - they're still only in Playoff position and the Playoffs won't be happening.

What about 4th promotion slot? Shouldn't that go to team in 4th place?

Or don't relegate the 4th bottom from League 1 - they've as much "right" to be in League 1 next year as a team that didn't quite manage to get to the automatic spots. I'm not really bothered, personally. There will be teams that miss out - there's no getting away from that (it's a mistake the SPFL made up here, trying to say that no team should lose out because of Covid, when in reality, every team is losing out to some extent).

I

POSHO wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:42 pm But if playoffs are not happening then the top 4 should be promoted automatically, thus the Cheltenham game would be relevant

Why ? 4th team didn't get into the automatic spots - so why promote automatically?

StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:21 pm

POSHO wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:42 pm But if playoffs are not happening then the top 4 should be promoted automatically, thus the Cheltenham game would be relevant

Why ? 4th team didn't get into the automatic spots - so why promote automatically?

So only 2 down from League 1, 3 up from League 2, 1 down from League 2 and 2 up from National league.

And how will second team from national league be decided...

StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:20 pm

Or don't relegate the 4th bottom from League 1 - they've as much "right" to be in League 1 next year as a team that didn't quite manage to get to the automatic spots.

As Bury have gone, 3rd bottom doesn't get relegated, need extra club next season to make up 24.

I just feel that the idea of playing any more games this season is cloud cuckoo land, personally. It's a close contact sport, there doesn't appear to be a testing & reporting regime available that can make it safe for players to train together, let alone play a match - closed doors or not. So the season is over and we can't play any games to even stuff up or decide final positions beyond where they are now.

I'm not really bothered how they end up calculating it to even up the matches played - points per game played seems fairest of all, as it's entirely based on fact, rather than what might happen.

How you decide who goes up/down if they're not yet in an automatic positions is anyone's guess - toss a coin for all I care. Teams will win and teams will lose, and someone will always think it's unfair (like dodgy offside decisions, or missed handballs, or Ray Goddard getting fouled for the Arsenal goal). But the season needs to be brought to a close and I think it's daft cutting into next season (even assuming there is one) to try and finish this season any more "fairly" than it currently is.