Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Let's try again to socialise medicine. Thanks Nye but many of them wriggled out in the compromise.

Let's capture the consultants and doctors who moonlight in the private sector and make them deliver to the NHS a lot more.

Let's open up practicising medicine and being a doctor to everyone who is capable. Not just the replicating professional class.

You started off being half sensible but then as usual you drifted into the nonsensical. Practicing medicine and being a doctor is open to anyone irrespective of class. It is attained by study, study, and more study. Class is irrelevant , many doctors come from working class backgrounds. They make sacrifices and put the effort in instead of whining from the sidelines like you and your ilk.

Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:35 am You started off being half sensible but then as usual you drifted into the nonsensical. Practicing medicine and being a doctor is open to anyone irrespective of class. It is attained by study, study, and more study. Class is irrelevant , many doctors come from working class backgrounds. They make sacrifices and put the effort in instead of whining from the sidelines like you and your ilk.

Are you backing up your poo poo with statistics.

You will find the Doctorial Classes replicate themselves.

The professional classes always do. Have you never watched Madmen?

So Max. Are you going to nationalise all the GP practices as well? All are private.

I'm with Max on this. Nationalise the bloody lot. It's an emergency situation. Make new laws if needed and make it happen.

Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:35 am You started off being half sensible but then as usual you drifted into the nonsensical. Practicing medicine and being a doctor is open to anyone irrespective of class. It is attained by study, study, and more study. Class is irrelevant , many doctors come from working class backgrounds. They make sacrifices and put the effort in instead of whining from the sidelines like you and your ilk.

Oh dear according to the British Medical journal it’s a poor 4%

https://www.bmj.com/content/355/bmj.i6330

That’s because the majority of working class prefer to study for useless degrees like humanity , sociology , Greek/Roman art ect instead of the much harder up to 9 year studies for the medical profession. Obviously it is initially very costly to study for such a long time , and I suggest a grant would be appropriate in exchange for tying future doctors to the nhs for an extended period.

Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:14 pm That’s because the majority of working class prefer to study for useless degrees like humanity , sociology , Greek/Roman art ect instead of the much harder up to 9 year studies for the medical profession. Obviously it is initially very costly to study for such a long time , and I suggest a grant would be appropriate in exchange for tying future doctors to the nhs for an extended period.

Sorry, but that doesn't seem to be an apology for being completely wrong? You said "many doctors come from working class backgrounds" but clearly they don't.

Redcard I think you need to check your facts before spouting off. If you did a little study, you would find that most professionals in the better paid jobs didn't even go to Grammar Schools they went to Public schools. This is true of Oxbridge graduates too. When I was doing Business Studies we had to do an assignment " The Career of My Choice ". In actuality you have very little choice , unless you a. went to a public school b Went to the right Uni c Had family or friends to open doors for you etc. It has nothing to do with what you studied for at Uni. Go away and look at Matt Hancocks degree(s) and Jeremy Hunt. These subjects are far easier than Science subjects. I know I have an A Level in Chemistry as well as some of the softer subjects. I would grade them as follows Hardest Sciences, Middle Languages, Softer Economics/Business, Softest Sociology/Politics

Bonio, yes they do. I didn’t say most , or the majority, I said many, and of course many do.

Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:09 pm Bonio, yes they do. I didn’t say most , or the majority, I said many, and of course many do.

Haha, so you'd get away with 4% being described as many in court would you?

Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:14 pm That’s because the majority of working class prefer to study for useless degrees like humanity , sociology , Greek/Roman art ect

Really?

Any proof to support that?

Or are you just talking out of your arse (as usual)?

Bonio, I would suggest that 12,000 (4%of 300,000) would be regarded as many, in any event does the 4% stated take into account that once qualified they cease to be working class and become middle class.

Even if it were possible to nationalise the private sector, GP surgeries as well, why would we place that burden on the NHS? The present management system just about works and some say its poorly managed. I've seen both sides and I reckon the cost of treatment of standard procedures is cheaper in the private sector.

The issue is the longer term burdens on the NHS such as the cost of dealing with alcaholism, drugs, smoking and obesity. Taking the addictions, I'm not talking about curing them, I'm talking about how their issues impact on the system. Go to the Royal London on any night and A+E has a number of issues there because druggies cannot look after themselves properly. Go to the hospital in the day and you see these people clogging up beds with medical complaints because their habitual needs impact on their health - and NHS resources.

My wife suggests using hotels as hospitals.lots of bedrooms for isolation.seems feasible

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:28 am Let's try again to socialise medicine. Thanks Nye but many of them wriggled out in the compromise.

Let's capture the consultants and doctors who moonlight in the private sector and make them deliver to the NHS a lot more.

Let's open up practicising medicine and being a doctor to everyone who is capable. Not just the replicating professional class.

Yes sure Maxie boy, lets open up the n.h.s. to all and sundry, not just the qualified professional class . I am sure carpenters would make terrific surgeons. You before me old chap.

Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:44 pm Yes sure Maxie boy, lets open up the n.h.s. to all and sundry, not just the qualified professional class . I am sure carpenters would make terrific surgeons. You before me old chap.

Are you a complete moron. I said open it to those who are capable.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:56 pm

Redcard wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:44 pm Yes sure Maxie boy, lets open up the n.h.s. to all and sundry, not just the qualified professional class . I am sure carpenters would make terrific surgeons. You before me old chap.

Are you a complete moron. I said open it to those who are capable.

I was speaking to a chemotherapy nurse who works in a private hospital and I asked her what was happening? Had her hospital been taken over? She said it had been, but a plan or a course of action had not yet been agreed. She said it was still being worked out or at least with the powers that be of what happens next. Would they become a coronvirus hospital or would they take patients who did not have coronavirus into their hospital and treat those? Leavin* he nhs to sort coronavirus as they are bigger than the private hospitals and let the private do the other work that the nhs would do. That way both situations are covered off.

It will be interesting what way the policy will go.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:24 am I was speaking to a chemotherapy nurse who works in a private hospital and I asked her what was happening? Had her hospital been taken over? She said it had been, but a plan or a course of action had not yet been agreed. She said it was still being worked out or at least with the powers that be of what happens next. Would they become a coronvirus hospital or would they take patients who did not have coronavirus into their hospital and treat those? Leavin* he nhs to sort coronavirus as they are bigger than the private hospitals and let the private do the other work that the nhs would do. That way both situations are covered off.

It will be interesting what way the policy will go.

Is it a question of buildings, facilities or staff. Great that we see centres being opened up and thousands of beds made available. But do we have the people to support them.

As for private hospitals supporting the NHS. Been going on for years.

There should only be a one tiered health system. I want to wish all the front end workers all the best over the next week's and months. Sadly, we will loose some of you along the way. My thoughts and prayers are with you all. Be well & Be safe. We need you and appreciate you more than you could ever imagine.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:24 am I was speaking to a chemotherapy nurse...

The extent of your contacts continues to impress.

Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:57 am

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:24 am I was speaking to a chemotherapy nurse...

The extent of your contacts continues to impress.

Try stepping away from your keyboard as you’ll find there is a big wide world out there. Lots of people doing lots of different things. Try talking to them you might be surprised who you’ll talk to and learn.

Max, have you ever tried either making a sensible comment or even one without an insult.
As for your nonsensical comment that the health service should be opened up to those capable , I assumed that on each occasion I visited the hospital I was seen by a capable qualified person.