Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Just read this

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/sport ... dismissal/

Not realty sure what to make of it. Clearly he was sacked because of off-the-pitch issues rather than on-the-pitch matters, but we knew that anyway. I suppose we will never know what really went on.

“One of the biggest disappointments for me was that I read it wrong, in terms of certain individuals, in terms of putting faith in people.

"That faith doesn’t always get repaid, which I think I was maybe a bit naive about. I’ve always accepted people for who they are. And that backfired.

Juicy.

He added: "I'm all for failing and I don't mind failing.

"I understand it's a part of life but I would have liked the opportunity to fail."


Maldon & Tiptree

Spectacular Failure Carl
Spectacular.

Christ.

Obviously there's a NDA in place so he can't say anything, but that's about as damning as it can get without him saying anything. Would love to know who he is talking about there.

The only thing I don't understand is why he reckons he only had 6 or 7 training sessions in the 5 weeks? That just doesn't make any sense.

It's all very well creating a family / community vibe around a club, but the professionals that run it need to be a bit more clear headed at times, and I'm afraid that Edinburgh's death tipped the community vibe over into a clique/clan vibe, which does not welcome outsiders and prizes fealty above other qualities like... ability.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:48 am

It was mainly Webb, ironically.

Sport1 hr agoReturn to management 'doesn’t fill me with enthusiasm' - Carl Fletcher back at AFC Bournemouth following Leyton Orient dismissal

By Tom Crocker  TomCrockerEcho

 

CARL Fletcher admits a return to management "doesn't fill me with enthusiasm" following his swift dismissal from Leyton Orient.

Fletcher left his role as loan manager at Cherries, having previously coached with the under-18s and under-21s, to take the role as O's boss in October last year, the club's first permanent boss since the tragic death of former manager Justin Edinburgh last summer.

However, less than a month and no wins in five games later, he was sacked with chairman Nigel Travis telling talkSPORT: "The cultural fit wasn't right. It's gone spectacularly wrong and we recognise that."

'It's gone spectacularly wrong and we recognise that' - Leyton Orient chairman Travis admits club 'screwed up' in appointing Carl Fletcher from Cherries

“It was just disbelief really,” Fletcher told The Athletic.

“I know football management is really short. If it’s six months (and) I’ve not done very well, fair enough. See you later. You get that.

"But I had about six or seven training sessions, no transfer window, none of my own staff. My best players were injured while I was there.

"It was a very unique and difficult situation with everything the club had gone through.

"There is no strategy to help guide the way. It was a very difficult time for both parties.

“One of the biggest disappointments for me was that I read it wrong, in terms of certain individuals, in terms of putting faith in people.

"That faith doesn’t always get repaid, which I think I was maybe a bit naive about. I’ve always accepted people for who they are. And that backfired.

"But I was very lucky – I had really close family, some really good friends, to get through that two, three weeks after. Because that was tough."

He added: "I'm all for failing and I don't mind failing.

"I understand it's a part of life but I would have liked the opportunity to fail."

Fletcher's association with Cherries dates back to the 1990s where he rose through the ranks to eventually captain the club, notably to victory in the 2003 Division Three play-off final before departing for West Ham. The former Wales international then returned in a coaching capacity following a spell managing Plymouth between 2011 and 2013, moving through the club before taking a newly-created position as loan manager in 2018, overseeing the club's players who are currently playing their football elsewhere.

Discussing his decision to join the O's, Fletcher said: "I wasn’t really looking to get away from Bournemouth.

"But the job came up and looked like a great opportunity – a team with some good players, location, a chance to take it forward. It ticked a lot of boxes.

"I knew it would be tough but sometimes you have to step out of your comfort zone.

"I was fully understanding that this group had been together, they had a bond, both the staff and the players, that I could never just jump in to."

But following his swift departure, Fletcher admits he is in no hurry to return to management.



'He will now train with us' - Pitman returns to Portsmouth fold after spell training with Cherries under-21s

‘When I was leaving Fiorentina I didn’t know what I was going to do. I spent maybe two months just running in the park’

'Nothing's happened yet' - Daniels unsure where his future lies with Cherries contract running down

Comment: After two missed opportunities, where are Cherries going to pick up the points they need to stay up ?
"I don't know, to be honest," he said.

"At the moment, it doesn’t fill me with enthusiasm.

"Football is great. I’ve learned a lot, I’ve travelled a lot through it and have had loads of experiences. I’ve made lots of good friends but there are a lot of people in it that aren’t so good.

"When you take away football and you get down to the human element of it, that’s the disappointing bit – that we can’t treat people the right way, with morals. I get that everyone is out for their own ends but we’re only human beings."

For now, Fletcher's focus is back on the role he has reprised at Cherries.

He joked: "I hadn’t been away long enough for people to realise I’d left!

"But going back to Bournemouth, as loans manager, I really enjoy that. You see the other side to the game. You see the human element a little bit more.

"But there are definitely certain aspects of football that I think are really, really disappointing. And the thing is we have a responsibility just to be nice."

   

OyinbO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:49 am It's all very well creating a family / community vibe around a club, but the professionals that run it need to be a bit more clear headed at times, and I'm afraid that Edinburgh's death tipped the community vibe over into a clique/clan vibe, which does not welcome outsiders and prizes fealty above other qualities like... ability.

Sadly, I am inclined to agree that may have been the case.

I’m still none the wiser as to what exactly a “loan manger” is in a footballing context.

Didn’t know what it was when we hired him, didn’t know what it was when he was here and still don’t know what it now he’s gone.

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:09 pm I’m still none the wiser as to what exactly a “loan manger” is in a footballing context.

Didn’t know what it was when we hired him, didn’t know what it was when he was here and still don’t know what it now he’s gone.

He looks after the elite players from their U23 group to help transition them into the full squad.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:35 pm

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:09 pm I’m still none the wiser as to what exactly a “loan manger” is in a footballing context.

Didn’t know what it was when we hired him, didn’t know what it was when he was here and still don’t know what it now he’s gone.

He looks after the elite players from their U23 group to help transition them into the full squad.

Isn’t that a “youth team coach” or “reserve team coach”, or even “U23s coach”?

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:35 pm

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:09 pm I’m still none the wiser as to what exactly a “loan manger” is in a footballing context.

Didn’t know what it was when we hired him, didn’t know what it was when he was here and still don’t know what it now he’s gone.

He looks after the elite players from their U23 group to help transition them into the full squad.

Is that a full-time job? Sounds like a cushy number if you can get it.

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:09 pm I’m still none the wiser as to what exactly a “loan manger” is in a footballing context.

Didn’t know what it was when we hired him, didn’t know what it was when he was here and still don’t know what it now he’s gone.

It says in the article: "overseeing the club's players who are currently playing their football elsewhere". Which translates as watching a lot of reserve and U23s football, and making sure their players are getting enough time and are progressing.

Among the list of things he says he didn't have in his time as O's head coach, was "none of my own staff" - what staff would that be, exactly, Carl? He was and remains an "overseer" of players playing elsewhere, not a coach working day-in day-out with other coaches. The situation would have been made clear to him from the beginning what the coaching setup was at the club. He literally had no such thing as "his people".

The other thing that stood out to me: "I was fully understanding that this group had been together, they had a bond, both the staff and the players, that I could never just jump in to." - indeed, so why did you try to change things so fundamentally, so quickly? Ross had got the club into the top half with a decent run of results, steadying the ship during a tragedy; Fletcher had all the time in the world to bed himself in to the role without changing too much, just some tweaks here and there (the awful defending for a start) - and yet that's exactly what he did, changing to a high-pressing style that the players clearly weren't ready for.

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:59 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:35 pm

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:09 pm I’m still none the wiser as to what exactly a “loan manger” is in a footballing context.

Didn’t know what it was when we hired him, didn’t know what it was when he was here and still don’t know what it now he’s gone.

He looks after the elite players from their U23 group to help transition them into the full squad.

Isn’t that a “youth team coach” or “reserve team coach”, or even “U23s coach”?

These are future.stars of the game
They need pandering to
Where to shop how to boil an egg that kind of thing.

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:59 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:35 pm

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:09 pm I’m still none the wiser as to what exactly a “loan manger” is in a footballing context.

Didn’t know what it was when we hired him, didn’t know what it was when he was here and still don’t know what it now he’s gone.

He looks after the elite players from their U23 group to help transition them into the full squad.

Isn’t that a “youth team coach” or “reserve team coach”, or even “U23s coach”?

The U23s coach will be looking after the U23 players in a general capacity, obviously. But he's charged with looking after a handful of those kids to get them ready for the first team squad.

What's so difficult to grasp about this?

A Pedant wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:38 pm

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:09 pm I’m still none the wiser as to what exactly a “loan manger” is in a footballing context.

Didn’t know what it was when we hired him, didn’t know what it was when he was here and still don’t know what it now he’s gone.

It says in the article: "overseeing the club's players who are currently playing their football elsewhere". Which translates as watching a lot of reserve and U23s football, and making sure their players are getting enough time and are progressing.

Among the list of things he says he didn't have in his time as O's head coach, was "none of my own staff" - what staff would that be, exactly, Carl? He was and remains an "overseer" of players playing elsewhere, not a coach working day-in day-out with other coaches. The situation would have been made clear to him from the beginning what the coaching setup was at the club. He literally had no such thing as "his people".

The other thing that stood out to me: "I was fully understanding that this group had been together, they had a bond, both the staff and the players, that I could never just jump in to." - indeed, so why did you try to change things so fundamentally, so quickly? Ross had got the club into the top half with a decent run of results, steadying the ship during a tragedy; Fletcher had all the time in the world to bed himself in to the role without changing too much, just some tweaks here and there (the awful defending for a start) - and yet that's exactly what he did, changing to a high-pressing style that the players clearly weren't ready for.

Fair comments. He was inadequate for the task at hand, and really was set up to fail.

A Pedant wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:38 pm

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:09 pm I’m still none the wiser as to what exactly a “loan manger” is in a footballing context.

Didn’t know what it was when we hired him, didn’t know what it was when he was here and still don’t know what it now he’s gone.

It says in the article: "overseeing the club's players who are currently playing their football elsewhere". Which translates as watching a lot of reserve and U23s football, and making sure their players are getting enough time and are progressing.

Among the list of things he says he didn't have in his time as O's head coach, was "none of my own staff" - what staff would that be, exactly, Carl? He was and remains an "overseer" of players playing elsewhere, not a coach working day-in day-out with other coaches. The situation would have been made clear to him from the beginning what the coaching setup was at the club. He literally had no such thing as "his people".

The other thing that stood out to me: "I was fully understanding that this group had been together, they had a bond, both the staff and the players, that I could never just jump in to." - indeed, so why did you try to change things so fundamentally, so quickly? Ross had got the club into the top half with a decent run of results, steadying the ship during a tragedy; Fletcher had all the time in the world to bed himself in to the role without changing too much, just some tweaks here and there (the awful defending for a start) - and yet that's exactly what he did, changing to a high-pressing style that the players clearly weren't ready for.

Perhaps he needed "his" people as he felt he wasn't getting any support from those already here? And the bit about him not being a day to day coach is incorrect. I've had it on good authority that quite a few players found his coaching to be excellent and innovative.

Got to take issue with the decent run of results stuff. At the RE stood down first time, we had 2 wins from 10 and sat 21st. We were in the top half (12th to be precise) on goal difference for 3 days after winning 4-0 at Grimsby. Perhaps the fundamental changes flectcher was making were needed to progress? Our record since Embleton's return is hardly evidence that his methods and style are particularly successful does it?

Smacks of the man being chucked under a bus by those who should have supported him.

The run of results after Ross realised he wasn't up to it and stepped down - after the Col Utd debacle, I think ? - was excellent.

IMO, it's that run of wins which caused the group to collectively decide they could do the job after all and lock out the newcomer.

The high pressing thing is something we had tried previously and still do now, to a certain extent, so it's not that alien a concept to our players.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:47 pm

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:59 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:35 pm

He looks after the elite players from their U23 group to help transition them into the full squad.

Isn’t that a “youth team coach” or “reserve team coach”, or even “U23s coach”?

The U23s coach will be looking after the U23 players in a general capacity, obviously. But he's charged with looking after a handful of those kids to get them ready for the first team squad.

What's so difficult to grasp about this?

The role I understand. Sounds like a basic development role.

It’s the odd job title that I don’t get. “Loan manager” sounds like somebody working in club finances rather then on the playing side.

Either way, we’ve learnt that a “loan manager” doth not maketh a football manager.

A Loan manager



Alone manager

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:43 pm A Loan manager



Alone manager

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:37 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:47 pm

Huxley wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:59 pm

Isn’t that a “youth team coach” or “reserve team coach”, or even “U23s coach”?

The U23s coach will be looking after the U23 players in a general capacity, obviously. But he's charged with looking after a handful of those kids to get them ready for the first team squad.

What's so difficult to grasp about this?

The role I understand. Sounds like a basic development role.

It’s the odd job title that I don’t get. “Loan manager” sounds like somebody working in club finances rather then on the playing side.

Either way, we’ve learnt that a “loan manager” doth not maketh a football manager.

Have you ever heard of a 'loan deal' or 'loan transfer' in football?

If so, that should clear it up for you.

Maybe it was all just a ruse and Carl really was a loan manager? As in a manager we took on loan, in the knowledge that he would be so rubbish and despised by everyone that it would have people pining for Ross to come back.

Not suggesting you're over thinking this in any way but for feckssakes get a grip.