Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:15 pm**

Two very poor sides playing very poor football. 4 goals from corners, could've been 5 but for a foul by Oldham player. Pretty much all we're getting used to seeing under Embleton, unable to impose ourselves on a game and painful to watch as entertainment.

Vigoroux - 6 - vital save at the end from yet another corner to get us a point

Brophy - 7 - Embleton relies on him to bail out the rest of the team's deficiencies. Our best defensive and offensive player
Happe - 5 - wobbly
Coulson - 5 - too slow for this level, doesn't inspire confidence
Marsh - 5 - lack of pace exposed badly first half, need to release 2 of the 3 current RBs next season imo

Wright - 4 - offered no defensive cover not offensive threat, back to the bench Josh
Cissé - 6 - trying to hold the middle of the pitch together on his own
Clay - 5 - for the number of touches he wants on the ball, many misplaced passes. Need better in midfield next season and keep him as a squad player

JMD - 5 - mostly anonymous
Johnson - 4 - looks NL standard, was on course for a 2 but gets one extra point for winning a corner and one for scoring the easiest goal
Wilkinson - 5 - ineffective, taken off early second half

Sotiriou - 6 - upped the pace somewhat but not a direct goal threat due to playing out wide

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:29 pm**

Vigouroux 6.5 great save in the last minutes. Not sure if he could've done anything about the goals

Marsh 6 his man got by him a couple of times. His man for both goals
Coulson 5 only in the team by default. Beaten by piergianni for the first
Happe 5 doesn't look good alongside Coulson, too slow as a pair
Brophy 6 can't cross

Clay 7 put himself about. Deserved mom
Cisse 7 usual self and a goal
Wright 4 only passes sideways. Doesn't offer enough for me

Jmd 6 not at his best
Johnson 6 looked poor other than his goal
Wilkinson 5 not bothered

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:31 pm**

Fair ratings.

Interesting how two players who were formidable in the conference last year were pretty anonymous today.

Rowe was average at best, and Piergianni (spell?) was very forgettable.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:49 pm**

Huxley wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:31 pm Fair ratings.

Interesting how two players who were formidable in the conference last year were pretty anonymous today.

Rowe was average at best, and Piergianni (spell?) was very forgettable.

Piergianni was having a fairly easy game against Johnson, just brushed him off the ball every time.

Rowe kinda summed up why people weren't that upset on missing out on him, rather ineffective. Also note how our strongest players at NL level the likes of Coulson and Clay aren't cutting it either, both fringe players at best going forward.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:59 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:49 pm
Huxley wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:31 pm Fair ratings.

Interesting how two players who were formidable in the conference last year were pretty anonymous today.

Rowe was average at best, and Piergianni (spell?) was very forgettable.
Piergianni was having a fairly easy game against Johnson, just brushed him off the ball every time.

Rowe kinda summed up why people weren't that upset on missing out on him, rather ineffective. Also note how our strongest players at NL level the likes of Coulson and Clay aren't cutting it either, both fringe players at best going forward.

Agreed.

I was one of many who thought that there wasn’t much difference in quality between the top 10 (or so) of the conference and the bottom 10 (or so) of league 2.

In hindsight I’m no longer so sure.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:03 pm**

Thought Clay was head and shoulders above anyone else today

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:06 pm**

Nad2008 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:03 pm Thought Clay was head and shoulders above anyone else today

Wow

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:12 pm**

Clay, and a few others, hopefully will be warming the bench next season if we are serious about progressing. As others have correctly identified they were good last season at a lower level but the step up has exposed their deficiencies.
Glad we are safe this season but to move on some quality additions will be needed i.e. better than what we have.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:18 pm**

I reserve the right to adjust these when I’ve seen the goals back -

Vigaro - 6. Not sure he could do much about either goal, although looked like he was close with one of them. Decent - but expected - save at the end to preserve the point. Decent kicking - other than one misplaced pass - throughout as well.

Marsh - 5. Torn apart initially by that pacy winger (17?) but they then inexplicably switched him to the right. Just not positive enough for my liking, needs to back his ability on the ball more.

Coulson - 6. looks to me like he lost his man for the first. Otherwise ok.

Happe - 6. Ok as well, never in trouble.

Brophy - 7. Kept a really pacy winger quiet and offered loads going forward. Gets better at LB game by game.

Cisse - 7. Beast, kept things simple, now becoming an aerial threat at set pieces as he should.

Clay - 8. MOTM deservedly. He’s never gonna be a Glenn Hoddle but is finally starting to get some confidence on the ball to go with his work rate.

Wright - n/a.

JMD - 6. Getting back to form.

Johnson - n/a.

Wilkinson - 5. Didn’t happen for him. Wonder whether the injury was genuine or he’d just had enough.

Subs

Ruel - 7. So lively, direct, physical, enthusiastic, everything our other strikers weren’t.

Angol - must be fuming that Johnson was left on for the full 90 after that shitshow.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:23 pm**

Vigouroux 6
Marsh 6
Happe 5
Coulson 6
Brophy 7
Wright 6
Clay 8
Cisse 7
Wilkinson 4
Johnson 4
Maguire-Drew 5

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:26 pm**

lordgriff wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:23 pm Vigouroux 6
Marsh 6
Happe 5
Coulson 6
Brophy 7
Wright 6
Clay 8
Cisse 7
Wilkinson 4
Johnson 4
Maguire-Drew 5

Wright 6

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:29 pm**

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:26 pm
lordgriff wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:23 pm Vigouroux 6
Marsh 6
Happe 5
Coulson 6
Brophy 7
Wright 6
Clay 8
Cisse 7
Wilkinson 4
Johnson 4
Maguire-Drew 5
Wright 6

That must be 3 for each half!

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:33 pm**

banqo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:29 pm
RedO wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:26 pm
lordgriff wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:23 pm Vigouroux 6
Marsh 6
Happe 5
Coulson 6
Brophy 7
Wright 6
Clay 8
Cisse 7
Wilkinson 4
Johnson 4
Maguire-Drew 5
Wright 6
That must be 3 for each half!

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:33 pm**

banqo wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:29 pm
RedO wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:26 pm
lordgriff wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:23 pm Vigouroux 6
Marsh 6
Happe 5
Coulson 6
Brophy 7
Wright 6
Clay 8
Cisse 7
Wilkinson 4
Johnson 4
Maguire-Drew 5
Wright 6
That must be 3 for each half!

Even that’s pushing it.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:36 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:06 pm
Nad2008 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:03 pm Thought Clay was head and shoulders above anyone else today
Wow

Not the only one obviously. He got MOTM didn't he?

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:49 pm**

What surprised me was Embleton saying Wright asked why he was dropped so he was given an explanation of tiredness, then brings him back and he’s as poor as he’s been all season. Complete non entity again. I could have done better then him today. Embarrassing.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:55 pm**

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:49 pm What surprised me was Embleton saying Wright asked why he was dropped so he was given an explanation of tiredness, then brings him back and he’s as poor as he’s been all season. Complete non entity again. I could have done better then him today. Embarrassing.

Get your Kit ready, your club needs you !

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:20 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:15 pm Two very poor sides playing very poor football. 4 goals from corners, could've been 5 but for a foul by Oldham player. Pretty much all we're getting used to seeing under Embleton, unable to impose ourselves on a game and painful to watch as entertainment.

Vigoroux - 6 - vital save at the end from yet another corner to get us a point

Brophy - 7 - Embleton relies on him to bail out the rest of the team's deficiencies. Our best defensive and offensive player
Happe - 5 - wobbly
Coulson - 5 - too slow for this level, doesn't inspire confidence
Marsh - 5 - lack of pace exposed badly first half, need to release 2 of the 3 current RBs next season imo

Wright - 4 - offered no defensive cover not offensive threat, back to the bench Josh
Cissé - 6 - trying to hold the middle of the pitch together on his own
Clay - 5 - for the number of touches he wants on the ball, many misplaced passes. Need better in midfield next season and keep him as a squad player

JMD - 5 - mostly anonymous
Johnson - 4 - looks NL standard, was on course for a 2 but gets one extra point for winning a corner and one for scoring the easiest goal
Wilkinson - 5 - ineffective, taken off early second half

Sotiriou - 6 - upped the pace somewhat but not a direct goal threat due to playing out wide

Clay a 5?

Please get a better seat

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:28 pm**

Vigoroux - 6. Clearly an upgrade on sargeant although would like to see the 2nd goal again.
Marsh - 5. Got done by their winger a couple of times and then they bewilderingly switched his side whence he became utterly ineffective against Brophy.
Brophy - 6.5 - Quiet first half, better 2nd with some link up with JMD. Worryingly looks like our main threat.
Happe - 6.5 Steady enough.
Coulson - 5 fairly sure his man for both goals
JMD - 5 - some flashes but generally quiet
Cisse 7 - usual stuff with the odd misplaced pass. Simple and effective.
Clay - 7.5 (MOM). Best performance for some time but still based on him being less turd than those around him
Wright - 3. Ineffective in and out of possession. Frustratingly slows everything down to his pace (which is glacial). No tempo to his play, not sure what RE is seeing.
Johnson 4 - marked up from 3 for his 8 inch tap in. I’ll reserve judgement for the moment but perhaps there’s a reason he’s spent most of his career at lower level
Wilkinson 5 - V quiet. Suspect early tackle on him put him back in a box form which he never got out of.

Subs:

Sotiriou 7 - morons like ability to raise the crowd and the game.

Embleton - would love to know if there’s a plan B when 4-3-3 doesn’t work. Besides Johnson’s goal in the 2nd half, don’t remember us creating hardly anything. Oldham were there for the taking at 2-2 but we hardly stretched them after the equaliser.

The idea of Ling / Embleton taking us into next season is seriously pissing me off. I’d accept games like today if it felt like a blip during some progress but I honestly don’t see any.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:29 pm**

UpminsterO wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:25 pm
Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:55 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:49 pm What surprised me was Embleton saying Wright asked why he was dropped so he was given an explanation of tiredness, then brings him back and he’s as poor as he’s been all season. Complete non entity again. I could have done better then him today. Embarrassing.
Get your Kit ready, your club needs you !
Sid I thought it was not wright that asked but the interviewer

I heard the publicised answer

Sid you have been around many decades is the football that bad now compared to the past

What I don't understand is we held our own in the old div 2 with crowds smaller than now and owners with less money
[/quot

Oh the good ole days eh

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:48 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:15 pm Two very poor sides playing very poor football. 4 goals from corners, could've been 5 but for a foul by Oldham player. Pretty much all we're getting used to seeing under Embleton, unable to impose ourselves on a game and painful to watch as entertainment.

Vigoroux - 6 - vital save at the end from yet another corner to get us a point

Brophy - 7 - Embleton relies on him to bail out the rest of the team's deficiencies. Our best defensive and offensive player
Happe - 5 - wobbly
Coulson - 5 - too slow for this level, doesn't inspire confidence
Marsh - 5 - lack of pace exposed badly first half, need to release 2 of the 3 current RBs next season imo

Wright - 4 - offered no defensive cover not offensive threat, back to the bench Josh
Cissé - 6 - trying to hold the middle of the pitch together on his own
Clay - 5 - for the number of touches he wants on the ball, many misplaced passes. Need better in midfield next season and keep him as a squad player

JMD - 5 - mostly anonymous
Johnson - 4 - looks NL standard, was on course for a 2 but gets one extra point for winning a corner and one for scoring the easiest goal
Wilkinson - 5 - ineffective, taken off early second half

Sotiriou - 6 - upped the pace somewhat but not a direct goal threat due to playing out wide

Understand your ratings for everyone, but very, very harsh on Craig Clay there. He was excellent in the second half.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:50 pm**

Feel sorry a bit for Danny Johnson - He's a goal poacher who needs to play in a two and needs the team to create chances for him.

He can't play the wide forward role as he doesn't have the technical ability and doesn't have the physical presence to play up front on his own.

Happy he got off the mark, got the goal his workrate deserved at the very least.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:06 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:29 pm Vigouroux 6.5 great save in the last minutes. Not sure if he could've done anything about the goals

Marsh 6 his man got by him a couple of times
Coulson 5 only in the team by default
Happe 5 doesn't look good alongside Coulson, too slow as a pair
Brophy 6 can't cross

Clay 7 put himself about. Deserved mom
Cisse 7 usual self and a goal
Wright 4 only passes sideways. Doesn't offer enough for me

Jmd 6 not at his best
Johnson 6 looked poor other than his goal
Wilkinson 5 not bothered

Can't really disagree with these ratings. Clay MoM for me and a higher rating for Brophy for being our best defender (admittedly little competition). Wilkinson was average today but Johnson was awful. JMD played well for 70 minutes but as usual disappeared from the game after that.

One of the half time summarisers called us "work in progress", this is the opposite of that.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:14 pm**

The Big Shot wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:50 pm Feel sorry a bit for Danny Johnson - He's a goal poacher who needs to play in a two and needs the team to create chances for him.

He can't play the wide forward role as he doesn't have the technical ability and doesn't have the physical presence to play up front on his own.

Happy he got off the mark, got the goal his workrate deserved at the very least.

So we have a striker who can’t play in a 3 to go with the CMs who can’t play in a 2.

What great recruitment.

Posted: **Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:17 pm**

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:14 pm
The Big Shot wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:50 pm Feel sorry a bit for Danny Johnson - He's a goal poacher who needs to play in a two and needs the team to create chances for him.

He can't play the wide forward role as he doesn't have the technical ability and doesn't have the physical presence to play up front on his own.

Happy he got off the mark, got the goal his workrate deserved at the very least.
So we have a striker who can’t play in a 3 to go with the CMs who can’t play in a 2.

What great recruitment.

I'll agree with you on this one, if we're going to continue with 4-3-3 then I don't see how he'll regularly fit in.

He cost us nothing to bring in, so can only assume the club thought he was worth a punt - A classic January signing IMO, the better players not avaliable so you end up with the scraps.

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