Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Have been admitted into the North West Counties League for next season. Their twitter account says they are the only club in bury who will be playing next season. This says the actual football is done and dusted then? I guess the fat ladies sung now.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2020-0 ... -football/

Found this and good luck to them.Could have been us.

Why the cheated the League to get promotion?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:56 pm Why the cheated the League to get promotion?

Eh? Have you been hacked by faith?

Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:42 pm https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2020-0 ... -football/

Found this and good luck to them.Could have been us.

Absolutely, we are very lucky indeed. Good luck to Bury in their quest to get back to the football league.

Feel really sorry for them and their fans. Don’t deserve to be in 10 th tier of football. Their owners should be guilty of bad management . EFL are also guilty of allowing this to happen .Do not show any interest about our position.

Good luck to AFC Bury

What a f*cking tragedy. And it was one of the best away trips too.

Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:21 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:56 pm Why the cheated the League to get promotion?

Eh? Have you been hacked by faith?

I meant old Bury not this new lot.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:49 pm

Howling Mad Murdock wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:21 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:56 pm Why the cheated the League to get promotion?

Eh? Have you been hacked by faith?

I meant old Bury not this new lot.

Bury that typo?

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:43 pm Feel really sorry for them and their fans. Don’t deserve to be in 10 th tier of football. Their owners should be guilty of bad management . EFL are also guilty of allowing this to happen .Do not show any interest about our position.

Once again, I ask the question as to what you wanted the EFL to do, that they legally could have done?

The EFL have no power to stop someone buying a limited company,

It's so sobering to think that we were an ace from being the same situation, albeit the Essex Seniors League. Reasons to be cheerful Part 3.

Norman_S_ Fletcher wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:03 pm It's so sobering to think that we were an ace from being the same situation, albeit the Essex Seniors League. Reasons to be cheerful Part 3.

Yeah,Betelgeuse almost lumbered us.

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:33 pm

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:43 pm Feel really sorry for them and their fans. Don’t deserve to be in 10 th tier of football. Their owners should be guilty of bad management . EFL are also guilty of allowing this to happen .Do not show any interest about our position.

Once again, I ask the question as to what you wanted the EFL to do, that they legally could have done?

The EFL have no power to stop someone buying a limited company,

Perhaps the EFL should ensure that anybody taking over a club should set aside a money bond held by the EFL for eventualities like Bury . It is to easy for owners just to walk away and put clubs into administration..

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:01 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:33 pm

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:43 pm Feel really sorry for them and their fans. Don’t deserve to be in 10 th tier of football. Their owners should be guilty of bad management . EFL are also guilty of allowing this to happen .Do not show any interest about our position.

Once again, I ask the question as to what you wanted the EFL to do, that they legally could have done?

The EFL have no power to stop someone buying a limited company,

Perhaps the EFL should ensure that anybody taking over a club should set aside a money bond held by the EFL for eventualities like Bury . It is to easy for owners just to walk away and put clubs into administration..

The EFL can't do that.

Ownership of a Company is governed by the Companies Act...law made by Parliament.

If the EFL made it a condition of membership that you had to pay a bond......how much would that bond need to be? Most clubs don't have that amount.

Also, what do you do if club hadn't paid the bond? Expell them? Guess what happened to Bury....yep they were expelled. All this would do is bring about a more rapid demise of a club.

The reality is that there is very little the EFL can do that would help.

It's easy to blame the EFL, but it isn't the EFL overspending, it is the clubs

I believe the Bury fans have been really split over the phoenix club/revive the current one/somehow keep Gigg Lane route, and it’s got ugly at times.

Good luck to Bury, and especially to the fans.

spen666 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:42 am

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:01 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:33 pm

Once again, I ask the question as to what you wanted the EFL to do, that they legally could have done?

The EFL have no power to stop someone buying a limited company,

Perhaps the EFL should ensure that anybody taking over a club should set aside a money bond held by the EFL for eventualities like Bury . It is to easy for owners just to walk away and put clubs into administration..

The EFL can't do that.

Ownership of a Company is governed by the Companies Act...law made by Parliament.

If the EFL made it a condition of membership that you had to pay a bond......how much would that bond need to be? Most clubs don't have that amount.

Also, what do you do if club hadn't paid the bond? Expell them? Guess what happened to Bury....yep they were expelled. All this would do is bring about a more rapid demise of a club.

The reality is that there is very little the EFL can do that would help.

It's easy to blame the EFL, but it isn't the EFL overspending, it is the clubs

The bond does not have to do anything with the limited company. It could be a law of the game that the new owners of the club have to pay a bond of x amount held in an escrow account to be used should a bury situation arise. That way the owners will be more serious about running the business correctly as any deviation away from a sustainable-ish model would mean the owners forego a significant sum of money.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:14 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:42 am

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:01 am

Perhaps the EFL should ensure that anybody taking over a club should set aside a money bond held by the EFL for eventualities like Bury . It is to easy for owners just to walk away and put clubs into administration..

The EFL can't do that.

Ownership of a Company is governed by the Companies Act...law made by Parliament.

If the EFL made it a condition of membership that you had to pay a bond......how much would that bond need to be? Most clubs don't have that amount.

Also, what do you do if club hadn't paid the bond? Expell them? Guess what happened to Bury....yep they were expelled. All this would do is bring about a more rapid demise of a club.

The reality is that there is very little the EFL can do that would help.

It's easy to blame the EFL, but it isn't the EFL overspending, it is the clubs

The bond does not have to do anything with the limited company. It could be a law of the game that the new owners of the club have to pay a bond of x amount held in an escrow account to be used should a bury situation arise. That way the owners will be more serious about running the business correctly as any deviation away from a sustainable-ish model would mean the owners forego a significant sum of money.

So club dont have money or refuse to pay money, what happens?

EFL expel club? Well guess what happened to Bury.. yep they got expelled.

A bond is not going to help ad all it will do is bring about even faster expulsions of clubs.

It sounds a good idea, but in practice is useless as it will bring about with more certainly the issue you are trying to prevent.

This applies to new owners Spen, if they have not got the money for the bond then they can’t take over the club. I’d suggest the ex bury owner couldn’t fund a bond so he wouldn’t be able to buy it in the first place thus stopping what happened from happening.

Over time all clubs would be covered by bonds.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:39 pm This applies to new owners Spen, if they have not got the money for the bond then they can’t take over the club. I’d suggest the ex bury owner couldn’t fund a bond so he wouldn’t be able to buy it in the first place thus stopping what happened from happening.

Over time all clubs would be covered by bonds.

Or to look at it another way
More clubs would collapse & dissapear as a bond is not something that is
going to be accepted by investors .
It isnt in any other form of buisness takeover , so why should it in Football ?

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:39 pm This applies to new owners Spen, if they have not got the money for the bond then they can’t take over the club. I’d suggest the ex bury owner couldn’t fund a bond so he wouldn’t be able to buy it in the first place thus stopping what happened from happening.

Over time all clubs would be covered by bonds.

This is where your logic fails.


The EFL rule cannot stop someone buying the club.

If someone buys 51% of the shares of a club, he owns it irrespective of what the EFL say. That is the law of the land. You are still trying to achieve something that can't be done. The EFL have no power to over rule Primary Legislation made by Parliament.

Now, the club in the EFL is still the same club, even if it's share owners change, so it's doubtful whether the EFL could change the goalposts for that club without doing the same to all clubs at same time.

Next issue is how much is the bond to be. If it's substantial, then people won't buy clubs and, imagine if the EFL had demanded T&T pay a bond of say £5m. They wouldn't buy club, and FB would have let club die. Thus your idea would have killed Orient off, not saved it.

Next what are EFL going to do if new owner refuses to pay a bond? He still owns club. Only penalty would be to expel club. Thus you bring about the thing you wanted to avoid.

You don't seem to appreciate that the EFL can't over ride primary legislation
You also seem not to appreciate that a limited company is a legal entity in its own right and that doesn't change despite the identity of shareholders changing

slacker wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:48 am I believe the Bury fans have been really split over the phoenix club/revive the current one/somehow keep Gigg Lane route, and it’s got ugly at times.

This would have happened if we had gone that way. OTF types were already starting to argue against the idea of a pheonix club before the takeover.

It would have been excruciating.