Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Without doubt the greatest goal scoring forward ever born in the British isles. How lucky was i to be a follower of Spurs in the mid sixties when i along with the rest of the country was mesmorised by the vision of Jimmy Greaves gliding by opposition players every week and placing the ball in the net. He would then nonchantly turn with arm raised why all of us in the crowd would be drooling in amazement how he made everything look so easy. There is no argument that he is the GREATEST goalscorer ever seen in English football.
Goalscoring Record:
Chelsea 1957/61 157apps 124goals
AC Milan 1961 12apps 9goals
Spurs 1961/70 321apps 220goals
WHU 1970/71 38apps 13goals
Professional League Career 528apps 366goals.
Remember when he played in Italy for AC Milan most matches finished with very few goals and defenders were just hired assasins in a football kit. Jimmy scored 9goals in 12apps. He also had a unbelievable international record.
England U23 12apps 13goals
England 57apps 44goals

Unfortunately Jimmy suffered a major stroke in 2015 and is wheelchair bound and under constant care. There is currently a big outcry going out for Jimmy to be honoured before it is possibly to late. This is a professional footballer who's achievements will probably never be beaten and as of yet he has not received the recognition he undoubtebly deserves. There is a BT Sport2 programme on Weds i think at 10.30pm called GREAVSIE please watch.

How much would he be worth in a transfer fee today? Can you imagine how much he'd be paid as well? Its also strange why he's never been honoured by the queen. Back in the day your saturday was not complete without watching Saint and Greavaie now that was a proper football program.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:02 am How much would he be worth in a transfer fee today? Can you imagine how much he'd be paid as well? Its also strange why he's never been honoured by the queen. Back in the day your saturday was not complete without watching Saint and Greavaie now that was a proper football program.

Apart from when they had to cover the Endsleigh League after the top flight rights went to Sky.

I'm sure an old person will be along to answer the transfer fee question in a non biased manner before long.

Why’d he only play 12 times for Milan, out of interest?

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:41 am Why’d he only play 12 times for Milan, out of interest?

Just read a long article that would bore the pants off if copied and pasted but is well summed up by the last bit

"At just 21, the move to a new country and adaptation to a new culture may have simply arrived too early for Greaves. The striker never apportioned the blame for his failure to settle in Italy to Milan or Rocco and acknowledged that his heart was just not in the move from the start"

I really didn’t realise he was that prolific..Fair play

AckneyAwks wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:02 am Without doubt the greatest goal scoring forward ever born in the British isles. How lucky was i to be a follower of Spurs in the mid sixties when i along with the rest of the country was mesmorised by the vision of Jimmy Greaves gliding by opposition players every week and placing the ball in the net. He would then nonchantly turn with arm raised why all of us in the crowd would be drooling in amazement how he made everything look so easy. There is no argument that he is the GREATEST goalscorer ever seen in English football.
Goalscoring Record:
Chelsea 1957/61 157apps 124goals
AC Milan 1961 12apps 9goals
Spurs 1961/70 321apps 220goals
WHU 1970/71 38apps 13goals
Professional League Career 528apps 366goals.
Remember when he played in Italy for AC Milan most matches finished with very few goals and defenders were just hired assasins in a football kit. Jimmy scored 9goals in 12apps. He also had a unbelievable international record.
England U23 12apps 13goals
England 57apps 44goals

Unfortunately Jimmy suffered a major stroke in 2015 and is wheelchair bound and under constant care. There is currently a big outcry going out for Jimmy to be honoured before it is possibly to late. This is a professional footballer who's achievements will probably never be beaten and as of yet he has not received the recognition he undoubtebly deserves. There is a BT Sport2 programme on Weds i think at 10.30pm called GREAVSIE please watch.

There is plenty of argument. He came no where near Dixie Dean's scoring record for a season. Brian Clough was probably more prolific.

There are no doubt other players people can make a claim for.


Also, all players playing in different eras, with different rules, different attitudes etc.

He never smashed the ball into the back of the net, he always side footed it or went round the keeper, apart from the odd header of course. Always my favourite player as a kid, a joy to watch until he hit the bottle.

He wouldn’t even be playing top flight football if he’d been born in this era.

The standard of football was much poorer back then, like Ronaldo playing in the national league south.

i would never challange the abilities and greatness of other footballers such as Dixie Dean or Brian Clough. The only thing i would say is that all Greaves professional league goals were in the top divisions of both England and Italy. Smendrick i'm a older person tell me what you value someone lets say Harry Kane in todays market?
Red O. Its pretty obvious you know nothing about football because if you think Jimmy Greaves could not play in this era you are a fool. All the superstars of the past are born with a talent that would play in any era.They have a GIFT! its called GREATNESS!!

Talk about psychic! I was only look at his goalscoring record yesterday. His record at Chelsea and Spurs is phenomenal.
Ps. Excuse silly comments like Pw's in the above. (like they say, there's always one)

AckneyAwks wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:50 am i would never challange the abilities and greatness of other footballers such as Dixie Dean or Brian Clough. The only thing i would say is that all Greaves professional league goals were in the top divisions of both England and Italy. Smendrick i'm a older person tell me what you value someone lets say Harry Kane in todays market?
Red O. Its pretty obvious you know nothing about football because if you think Jimmy Greaves could not play in this era you are a fool. All the superstars of the past are born with a talent that would play in any era.They have a GIFT! its called GREATNESS!!

Not sure about that. Playing against pub team fitness players then compared to players at elite levels of fitness and skill now is very different. Players didn't really look after themselves back then either. And the game has evolved so much over time. This is why (in many sports, not just football) you'd need to calibrate and adjust to era rather than simply quote goalscoring records from 60 years ago and compare them directly to modern day records.

My valuation of Harry Kane is not relevant to this discussion.

That old argument of he could not play in this ERA of todays football. I'll dilute it to just Leyton Orient.
Could these former players get into todays team and i'm laughing why i write this i should tell you.
RED O &PW you answer and everyone will know your football knowledge.
Laurie Cunningham
Peter Kitchen
Honest answers not silly ones.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:02 am How much would he be worth in a transfer fee today? Can you imagine how much he'd be paid as well? Its also strange why he's never been honoured by the queen. Back in the day your saturday was not complete without watching Saint and Greavaie now that was a proper football program.

His transfer fee from AC Milan to Spurs was £99,999, because somebody did not want him to be the first £100,000 footballer. That may give you a yardstick to go on. Saint and Greavsie was hilarious, they once had his Spitting Image puppet in his place because he was unwell.

My first sporting hero. Still get wet-eyes watching YouTube of him scoring.

Anyone read the "Greavsie" the biography he wrote about 20 years ago. Fantastic. And he and Ian St John were treated like s*** when ITV wanted to bring the Saint & Greavise show to an end. Typical TV sanctimonious s***s.

But the guy never recovered from not playing in the World Cup Final and the adulation Geoff Hurst still gets for his hat-trick.

As for an honour, of course, well overdue. But look at Bobby Moore, all he got was an OBE for being the captain of a Wold Cup winning team. Even Beckham's got that and he's never even got as far as a world cup semi-final.

Greavsie you were the best.

Smendrick your mindthought and lack of vision lets you down badly. A natural talent would adapt to the methods of time when to play football. Its something they are born with thats why they are worshipped. Thats not just sport but many other spheres. Regards you bottling out on Harry Kane who is a player i really like and admire. Let's say for instance Harry Kane £80 million then you can price Jimmy Greaves £150 million. You are probably not old enough to have seen Greaves so that gives you a guide and i'm probably still undervaluing Greaves. One other thing when people watch film footage of years gone bye it can be very misleading, so dont let that deflect your judgement.

The greatest pure “ finisher” I have ever seen.

"I'd admit that Ricky Otto's crap if we had the Premiershiiiiiip"

AckneyAwks wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:18 am Smendrick your mindthought and lack of vision lets you down badly. A natural talent would adapt to the methods of time when to play football. Its something they are born with thats why they are worshipped. Thats not just sport but many other spheres. Regards you bottling out on Harry Kane who is a player i really like and admire. Let's say for instance Harry Kane £80 million then you can price Jimmy Greaves £150 million. You are probably not old enough to have seen Greaves so that gives you a guide and i'm probably still undervaluing Greaves. One other thing when people watch film footage of years gone bye it can be very misleading, so dont let that deflect your judgement.

It's as easy not to adapt as it is to adapt. Saying players would adapt because they are the best of their time is an intangible claim.

Turning up for games with a reasonable level of fitness and against the same level is one thing, but would players from then have the application, commitment, desire and ability to really push themselves to improve both their ability and conditioning to the standards they need to now? And commit to the lifestyle needed (not sure what Greaves' lifestyle was like, but I bet it was incompatible with.modern standards)? Elite level players are doing anything they can nowadays to gain a slight edge

Football is littered with skillful players that never made it because they couldn't apply or commit themselves sufficiently to the other requirements to perform as well as they needed to in the modern game. So it's clearly wrong to take someone from back then and say that they would perform at the same standard now. Especially with no adjustment for era or consideration of would they have even been able to get to the standards of now in the first place.

£150million for Greaves is cloud cuckoo land stuff. Anyone can make a figure up to try to prove their point. Nor was anyhting "bottled" by saying Harry Kane is not relevant to this discussion - you saying that is further evidence that your thought process is badly impaired.

The great players of yesterday year would be great players today. The same desires would exist, the same God given talent would be there married to today's medical science and fitness and they would be top players today and tomorrow.

Could i ask you Smendrick what is your age and what you would class as a era of football you have been watching i.e one, two or three decades. I ask this not to be rude but to ask for your opinion on certain footballers. I am 63 so i have seen and followed football since early sixties but of course that does not make me a good judge or better informed. I will pick some obvious names and you can tell me if they could play now, three or four decades on from when they played.
George Best, Pele, Maradona and Maldini.
Now to make it easy for you do you hand on your heart think Messi and Ronaldo could be great players in 20 or 30 years time? Please dont go Scientific on me just loosen your mindset, take off the blinkers and you will feel free of any negative forces.
Be totally honest as in my opinion Messi and Ronaldo would be GREAT in 20 or 30 years time. The same as Best, Pele, Maradona, Maldini and.....GREAVES!

Anyone who thinks that the greats of yesteryears couldn’t play in the top flight today never saw these perform and are complete no nothings. Today’s footballers are a protected species unlike players in greaves era when sliding tackles came in a foot from the ground , and tackling from behind was fair game, when because there were no substitutes players stayed on the pitch while badly injured. Couldn’t play in the top flight!, todays players wouldn’t have got within a yard of greaves, or best , they would have been turned inside out. There has never been a better tackler than Dave McKay , or passer than Johnny Haynes , or goal scorer than jimmy greaves. Half a dozen premiership games today and your on £50,000 a week min and a candidate for the England team.
In the days before all the European cup fixtures I saw Chelsea v Bilbao in a friendly and a driven long ball was played through to a young jimmy greaves, he let the ball run in front of him, and by dipping his shoulders beat defender after defender barely touching the ball before rounding the keeper and slotting home. Couldn’t make it today!, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Thor...Spot on!

And you Redcard.