Independent Leyton Orient Forum

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Chasing the dream got them nowhere but staring at relegation.

Gold & Sullivan have probably taken more than that out of the club over the same period.

Its always been a dream of mine that WH, get relegated to the Championship, then after a couple of mediocre seasons get relegated again, into League 1.
This has happened to Man City, Leeds, Norwich, Leicester, Southampton & Sunderland, this century, so why not West Ham

With wages of 71% of turnover that’s heading into unsustainable areas. I like Sullivan’s comments of “the club has a world class team and management”. I’d like to ask where exactly are they then?

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:16 pm Its always been a dream of mine that WH, get relegated to the Championship, then after a couple of mediocre seasons get relegated again, into League 1.
This has happened to Man City, Leeds, Norwich, Leicester, Southampton & Sunderland, this century, so why not West Ham

Would love it too but doubt if they will get relegated

Fellowo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:00 pm https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/footbal ... ssion=true

Chasing the dream got them nowhere but staring at relegation.

Couldn't have happened to a more thoroughly deserving club

And with a subsidised ground too....

I feel for their long-suffering fans, but would love to see them relegated because of Gold and Sullivan.

Mind you, they've probably already made a mint out of selling the Boleyn Ground for flats, so they would probably just move on to somewhere else where they felt they could make money and leave the Club with financial problems.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:16 pm Its always been a dream of mine that WH, get relegated to the Championship, then after a couple of mediocre seasons get relegated again, into League 1.
This has happened to Man City, Leeds, Norwich, Leicester, Southampton & Sunderland, this century, so why not West Ham

Man City haven't been in 3rd tier of English football this century

Still can’t understand why some Orient fans have a real dislike for West Ham
Kind of sad really invest in a hobby or something

Their next away games are tough: Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Newcastle, Norwich, Man U. 5 points might be a good guess, so they probably need 4 wins from 8 home games to get to 40 points, and the next one is Liverpool.

Could be a barren period if they got relegated. Surprised the fans haven't turned against the board more. They need some massive signings this window, similar to how Kitson and Hartson dug them out of a hole a way back.

Shareholder loan of £45m is never cleared, running up interest of between 4-7% over the years.

The stadium move was never really about the fans, or the next level. The club didn't have the success to organically get their attendances so high, not without heavily discounting their tickets, or inventing fake waiting lists.

A relegation could be bad for us though. I'd imagine it'd be even harder for them to fill their ground with Championship football, so I'd imagine for the neutral fan it will be cheaper to get a ticket for their games than it would be for ours.

Fantastic news. I cannot stand the Spammers.

spen666 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:41 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:16 pm Its always been a dream of mine that WH, get relegated to the Championship, then after a couple of mediocre seasons get relegated again, into League 1.
This has happened to Man City, Leeds, Norwich, Leicester, Southampton & Sunderland, this century, so why not West Ham

Man City haven't been in 3rd tier of English football this century

Correct, it was 1998/99 season. I was out by 12 months, and if anyone was going to point that out, it was always going to be you, wasnt it?

I was drinking with a mate and his West Ham supporting pals after the game on Saturday and they're absolutely resigned to going down. They didn't have any doubt about that. I was a little surprised tbh but I guess they know better than us O's fans.

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:05 pm Gold & Sullivan have probably taken more than that out of the club over the same period.

How have they structured things so they can do this? Very interested to hear more.

LittleMate wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:30 pm And with a subsidised ground too....

It becomes even more subsidised when they drop down to the Championship, FFS.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:49 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:41 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:16 pm Its always been a dream of mine that WH, get relegated to the Championship, then after a couple of mediocre seasons get relegated again, into League 1.
This has happened to Man City, Leeds, Norwich, Leicester, Southampton & Sunderland, this century, so why not West Ham

Man City haven't been in 3rd tier of English football this century

Correct, it was 1998/99 season. I was out by 12 months, and if anyone was going to point that out, it was always going to be you, wasnt it?

nothing wrong with a bit of accuracy

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:01 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:05 pm Gold & Sullivan have probably taken more than that out of the club over the same period.

How have they structured things so they can do this? Very interested to hear more.

I haven’t looked, but I recall they both said they don’t take a penny out of the club, only money in, which maybe means loans (recoverable at some point) or injected as capital only returned upon the sale of a business (if sold for decent money and not a quid like Charlton have just been sold for)

Thor wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:13 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:01 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:05 pm Gold & Sullivan have probably taken more than that out of the club over the same period.

How have they structured things so they can do this? Very interested to hear more.

I haven’t looked, but I recall they both said they don’t take a penny out of the club, only money in, which maybe means loans (recoverable at some point) or injected as capital only returned upon the sale of a business (if sold for decent money and not a quid like Charlton have just been sold for)

Thanks for that but Ornchurch has posted to the contrary.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:16 pm Its always been a dream of mine that WH, get relegated to the Championship, then after a couple of mediocre seasons get relegated again, into League 1.
This has happened to Man City, Leeds, Norwich, Leicester, Southampton & Sunderland, this century, so why not West Ham

Also Forest (two time European Champions), Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United, Coventry & Bolton. All with some degree of claim to be a club of comparable size, but only the last two encumbered with stadium issues - and look what happened to them

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:19 pm
Thanks for that but Ornchurch has posted to the contrary.

It surely is a play on words.

They don't seem to be paid any salary by the club. The loan interest may be paid to other legal entities, so in a strict sense they could claim no money goes directly from the club to them.

The interest payments on the shareholder loans is pretty real.

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:19 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:13 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:01 pm

How have they structured things so they can do this? Very interested to hear more.

I haven’t looked, but I recall they both said they don’t take a penny out of the club, only money in, which maybe means loans (recoverable at some point) or injected as capital only returned upon the sale of a business (if sold for decent money and not a quid like Charlton have just been sold for)

Thanks for that but Ornchurch has posted to the contrary.

They cleared the outstanding loans (over £100m allegedly when they took over), which they had to do as they had to be debt free as a condition of getting the stadium, but hold the loans themselves for which they are receiving interest. Initially at a rate of 7% which dropped to 4% upon complaints from supporters. They then deferred the payments but were due to receive £43 million this month.

eagwgw wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:25 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:19 pm
Thanks for that but Ornchurch has posted to the contrary.

It surely is a play on words.

They don't seem to be paid any salary by the club. The loan interest may be paid to other legal entities, so in a strict sense they could claim no money goes directly from the club to them.

The interest payments on the shareholder loans is pretty real.

Do they need a salary when they are collecting the interest payments?

Karren Brady gets a salary though. £1.3m which is up from £800k the previous year.

No sympathy for them at all. Owners are vile and the fans have always had ideas above themselves. I was much impressed recently when one of the owners admitted they may have made mistakes with some of their managerial appointments but they now felt they had the right man to take them forward. What? The same guy you let go about 18 months ago?