Independent Leyton Orient Forum

The club have really backed themselves into a corner with how they set things up with Ross and to a lesser extent Jobi & Danny. The period after Justin's death was very emotional and decisions made were with heart rather than head.

Everyone knows Ross is a great guy, who Justin loved, he loves Orient, he desperately wants Orient to do well. However he himself knows and he has admitted it, he is not up to the job of manager so we have a problem. Manager and coaches work best as a team and need everyone to fit. Ross is not going to fit within every team. The club have shown that keeping Ross and the others out of loyalty and trying to find a leader who will accommodate them is proving different at least. It's obvious that appointing Fletcher was swayed by him agreeing to keep them. At the time, more able and experienced managers were dismissed because they wouldn't.

Ross won't remain at the club forever and it appears he will not offer to move on himself. At some point the club needs to make this decision for him, the longer it puts it's head in the sand, the more lasting damage it causes.

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:58 am The club have really backed themselves into a corner with how they set things up with Ross and to a lesser extent Jobi & Danny. The period after Justin's death was very emotional and decisions made were with heart rather than head.

Everyone knows Ross is a great guy, who Justin loved, he loves Orient, he desperately wants Orient to do well. However he himself knows and he has admitted it, he is not up to the job of manager so we have a problem. Manager and coaches work best as a team and need everyone to fit. Ross is not going to fit within every team. The club have shown that keeping Ross and the others out of loyalty and trying to find a leader who will accommodate them is proving different at least. It's obvious that appointing Fletcher was swayed by him agreeing to keep them. At the time, more able and experienced managers were dismissed because they wouldn't.

Ross won't remain at the club forever and it appears he will not offer to move on himself. At some point the club needs to make this decision for him, the longer it puts it's head in the sand, the more lasting damage it causes.

I agree 100%.
The Board has made a series of questionable decisions going right back to the “ interim” appointment after JE’s death. Given it was presumably known from the outset within the club that RE didn’t have a desire to do the Head Coach role on a permanent basis its difficult to understand why a more proactive approach to finding a replacement wasn’t taken during the summer or certainly during the first 6 to 8 weeks of the season. Instead it took RE himself to stand down at the end of September after citing his dissatisfaction with the way things were progressing before any recruitment activity was initiated.
The Board then compounded matters by applying unnecessary filters to the “ process” such as insisting the existing coaching set up could not be changed or that candidates with multiple previous HC/ Manager jobs would not be considered. The result was Carl Fletcher - an individual who almost all fans felt was singularly unsuited to the job on hand and who lasted a mere 29 days at the club - a shorter period than the process it took to recruit him!
Now, after the initial flurry of activity following a Fletcher’s dismissal aimed at smoothing over the cracks that had appeared behind the scenes there has been another period of seeming inactivity and drift whilst RE resumes his “ interim” status almost indefinitely.
This whole episode and the way it’s been handled has driven a wedge between the club and many fans and strong and decisive action by the Board is needed to repair the situation.

People keep saying he's not up to it, or just isn't a manager, without any justification.

Our fans really are fickle, first they hounded him out of the job, then were singing his name, then they were glad to have him back after Fletcher, now they want him gone again.

The club have a strategy of keeping the same coaching staff, for stability. I'd say that just six months after a managers death that is a sensible decision. It is also quite expensive to fire people.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:02 pm People keep saying he's not up to it, or just isn't a manager, without any justification.

Our fans really are fickle, first they hounded him out of the job, then were singing his name, then they were glad to have him back after Fletcher, now they want him gone again.

The club have a strategy of keeping the same coaching staff, for stability. I'd say that just six months after a managers death that is a sensible decision. It is also quite expensive to fire people.

I understand the continuity concept and maybe it’s the right way but it doesn’t appear to be paying dividends at the present time. Likewise , if it’s simply a matter of not being able to afford to recruit a new manager/ dismiss existing coaching staff , then again I could understand that as well. For me it’s been the dithering and what seems to a lack of certainty that’s caused the greatest concern. Also I don’t think your characterisation of RE being “ hounded” out of a job is an accurate one tbh. Whilst there is always going to be a vocal few I truly don’t think the majority of supporters act in that way. I do think however that a sizeable number of fans see this set of circumstances potentially playing out badly which is causing apprehension.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:02 pm People keep saying he's not up to it, or just isn't a manager, without any justification.

Our fans really are fickle, first they hounded him out of the job, then were singing his name, then they were glad to have him back after Fletcher, now they want him gone again.

The club have a strategy of keeping the same coaching staff, for stability. I'd say that just six months after a managers death that is a sensible decision. It is also quite expensive to fire people.

Ross has a record that shows he is not able to manage and the results reflect this, end of !!!

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:04 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:02 pm People keep saying he's not up to it, or just isn't a manager, without any justification.

Our fans really are fickle, first they hounded him out of the job, then were singing his name, then they were glad to have him back after Fletcher, now they want him gone again.

The club have a strategy of keeping the same coaching staff, for stability. I'd say that just six months after a managers death that is a sensible decision. It is also quite expensive to fire people.

Ross has a record that shows he is not able to manage and the results reflect this, end of !!!

It's not end of though.

If the club are offering him a permanent contract it means they think he can take us forward in the future, not the past. I.e. that he will improve things and improve as a coach, a tactician and a person. Who knows if this will happen, especially as he would be working with a squad that is very below average, poorly constructed and with longer term committment to too many poor players. That makes it difficult to evaluate Embleton to some degree.

I'd still much prefer an experienced and proven manager/head coach, but I'm not going to cry like a baby about that if Embleton is given a chance; just see how things go and constructively criticise performance in a way that you're not capable of.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:15 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:04 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:02 pm People keep saying he's not up to it, or just isn't a manager, without any justification.

Our fans really are fickle, first they hounded him out of the job, then were singing his name, then they were glad to have him back after Fletcher, now they want him gone again.

The club have a strategy of keeping the same coaching staff, for stability. I'd say that just six months after a managers death that is a sensible decision. It is also quite expensive to fire people.

Ross has a record that shows he is not able to manage and the results reflect this, end of !!!

It's not end of though.

If the club are offering him a permanent contract it means they think he can take us forward in the future, not the past. I.e. that he will improve things and improve as a coach, a tactician and a person. Who knows if this will happen, especially as he would be working with a squad that is very below average, poorly constructed and with longer term committment to too many poor players. That makes it difficult to evaluate Embleton to some degree.

I'd still much prefer an experienced and proven manager/head coach, but I'm not going to cry like a baby about that if Embleton is given a chance; just see how things go and constructively criticise performance in a way that you're not capable of.

Ok, but if they make him our permeant manager the board had better back him up with some good January signings or we could end up in relegation trouble

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:25 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:15 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:04 pm

Ross has a record that shows he is not able to manage and the results reflect this, end of !!!

It's not end of though.

If the club are offering him a permanent contract it means they think he can take us forward in the future, not the past. I.e. that he will improve things and improve as a coach, a tactician and a person. Who knows if this will happen, especially as he would be working with a squad that is very below average, poorly constructed and with longer term committment to too many poor players. That makes it difficult to evaluate Embleton to some degree.

I'd still much prefer an experienced and proven manager/head coach, but I'm not going to cry like a baby about that if Embleton is given a chance; just see how things go and constructively criticise performance in a way that you're not capable of.

Ok, but if they make him our permeant manager the board will have to back him up with some more good signings in this window .

Of course. They need to do that no matter who the head coach is. And to try to ship some deadweight out and look at a replacement for Ekpiteta.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:29 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:25 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:15 pm

It's not end of though.

If the club are offering him a permanent contract it means they think he can take us forward in the future, not the past. I.e. that he will improve things and improve as a coach, a tactician and a person. Who knows if this will happen, especially as he would be working with a squad that is very below average, poorly constructed and with longer term committment to too many poor players. That makes it difficult to evaluate Embleton to some degree.

I'd still much prefer an experienced and proven manager/head coach, but I'm not going to cry like a baby about that if Embleton is given a chance; just see how things go and constructively criticise performance in a way that you're not capable of.

Ok, but if they make him our permeant manager the board will have to back him up with some more good signings in this window .

Of course. They need to do that no matter who the head coach is. And to try to ship some deadweight out and look at a replacement for Ekpiteta.

Sorry , I must have missed something . Replacement for Ekpiteta ? Is he going ?

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:04 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:02 pm People keep saying he's not up to it, or just isn't a manager, without any justification.

Our fans really are fickle, first they hounded him out of the job, then were singing his name, then they were glad to have him back after Fletcher, now they want him gone again.

The club have a strategy of keeping the same coaching staff, for stability. I'd say that just six months after a managers death that is a sensible decision. It is also quite expensive to fire people.

Ross has a record that shows he is not able to manage and the results reflect this, end of !!!

Quite a few of the players probably aren't good enough for this league, that's not Ross's fault.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:32 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:29 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:25 pm

Ok, but if they make him our permeant manager the board will have to back him up with some more good signings in this window .

Of course. They need to do that no matter who the head coach is. And to try to ship some deadweight out and look at a replacement for Ekpiteta.

Sorry , I must have missed something . Replacement for Ekpiteta ? Is he going ?

Pretty certain we'll either sell in January or he will leave at the end of his contract this summer.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:33 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:04 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:02 pm People keep saying he's not up to it, or just isn't a manager, without any justification.

Our fans really are fickle, first they hounded him out of the job, then were singing his name, then they were glad to have him back after Fletcher, now they want him gone again.

The club have a strategy of keeping the same coaching staff, for stability. I'd say that just six months after a managers death that is a sensible decision. It is also quite expensive to fire people.

Ross has a record that shows he is not able to manage and the results reflect this, end of !!!

Quite a few of the players probably aren't good enough for this league, that's not Ross's fault.

That’s Lings fault, Ross’s bessy mate !

Possibly, but the summer recruitment was slightly disrupted wasn't it?

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:02 pm People keep saying he's not up to it, or just isn't a manager, without any justification.

Our fans really are fickle, first they hounded him out of the job, then were singing his name, then they were glad to have him back after Fletcher, now they want him gone again.

The club have a strategy of keeping the same coaching staff, for stability. I'd say that just six months after a managers death that is a sensible decision. It is also quite expensive to fire people.

Look at his manager stats, on current levels we will be fighting to stay in the league come the end of may.

I think he will do better once we strengthen the squad. We have basically missed a window.

I agree and I hope that Ling provides him with the required players to allow that to happen.

1st one seems good (never seen him myself just going off what others say) and positive. Now we just need a strong ball winning central midfielder as the next priority.

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:42 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:33 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:04 pm

Ross has a record that shows he is not able to manage and the results reflect this, end of !!!

Quite a few of the players probably aren't good enough for this league, that's not Ross's fault.

That’s Lings fault, Ross’s bessy mate !

You're still incapable of actually thinking and instead just prefer snipes at the club. It's partly a byproduct of us winning promotion and having some inadequate players with term still remaining on their contracts, partly due to needing to re-sign some out of contract players that Edinburgh had wanted to keep for stability and partly other reasons. We can't just get rid of contracted players and immediately replace them.

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:42 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:33 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:04 pm

Ross has a record that shows he is not able to manage and the results reflect this, end of !!!

Quite a few of the players probably aren't good enough for this league, that's not Ross's fault.

That’s Lings fault, Ross’s bessy mate !

I think you will find an interview with JE on youtube where he stated , that these players deserved a chance in League 2 .

Hardly Lings fault.

It is possible under Justin they could have pushed on
Unfortunately that is something we will never know.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:35 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:42 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:33 pm


Quite a few of the players probably aren't good enough for this league, that's not Ross's fault.

That’s Lings fault, Ross’s bessy mate !

I think you will find an interview with JE on youtube where he stated , that these players deserved a chance in League 2 .

Hardly Lings fault.

It is possible under Justin they could have pushed on
Unfortunately that is something we will never know.

A chance maybe, they have had that and blown it big time, time to get rid along with Embleton who has had his chance and shown he has not got what it takes , the results prove this beyond a doubt !

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:18 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:35 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:42 pm

That’s Lings fault, Ross’s bessy mate !

I think you will find an interview with JE on youtube where he stated , that these players deserved a chance in League 2 .

Hardly Lings fault.

It is possible under Justin they could have pushed on
Unfortunately that is something we will never know.

A chance maybe, they have had that and blown it big time, time to get rid along with Embleton who has had his chance and shown he has not got what it takes , the results prove this beyond a doubt !

Results prove that having your main man snatched away at 49 rips a football club apart.

Nothing else you have ever stated on this subject is proof.
It is conjecture only.

That’s truly the sad part tuffers, it’s heartbreaking for his family, never mind the club or fans.

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:28 pm That’s truly the sad part tuffers, it’s heartbreaking for his family, never mind the club or fans.

Agreed Thor .

We moan about Ross ,

Yet someone like poundhill could never know the pain his daughter will feel when her Dad is not there to walk her down the Aisle on her wedding day .

Or either of his kids to give advice on parenthood etc.

Im getting a bit sick of these w*nky posts where the
Blame is being apportioned to everyone & anyone , when it was something out of everyones control.

Get through this season & finish 2nd bottom & i will be ecstatic .

Then reorganise properly for 2020-21 Season.

....

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:55 pm....

What happened to the words thor ?

I was reading them & they dissapeared

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:22 pm

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:18 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:35 pm

I think you will find an interview with JE on youtube where he stated , that these players deserved a chance in League 2 .

Hardly Lings fault.

It is possible under Justin they could have pushed on
Unfortunately that is something we will never know.

A chance maybe, they have had that and blown it big time, time to get rid along with Embleton who has had his chance and shown he has not got what it takes , the results prove this beyond a doubt !

Results prove that having your main man snatched away at 49 rips a football club apart.

Nothing else you have ever stated on this subject is proof.
It is conjecture only.

JE was the man and that was proven by us getting promoted automatically on points.
RE is not the man and that has been proven by his tactics and not delivering on points, end of !!!.